City of Heroes: Rebirth > Controller

Water Control/Time Manipulation (Fluixic)

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wyldhaunt:

--- Quote ---Being able to enact Area Denial OVER THERE through use of Distortion Field and Slowed Response (AoE at range) while ALSO maintaining Area Denial OVER HERE through Turbulent Aura and Time's Juncture (PBAoE) to protect squishy allies from "leakers" who like to melee would give you a powerful combination of simultaneous NEAR AND FAR area denial that would go a long way in team context settings as a Battlefield Controller. No, it wouldn't necessarily represent a "hard" lockdown capability like AoE Holds do ... but it would represent an exceptionally powerful "neutralizer" capability that renders hordes of Foes relatively "harmless" even if they aren't completely locked down "hard" like a Hold would accomplish. Your damage mitigation value would be exceptionally high, giving both yourself and your team "all the time in the world" to defeat your adversaries Wholesale Rather Than Retail™.
--- End quote ---

More on this - this idea has a hell of a lot of merit, because there are plenty of times on a team already where I use my aura and LAoE powers already where I am, and ST hold/damage someone away from where I am. However my current playstyle is to draw as many to me as possible, rather than keeping them where they are - except possibly that one range-preference mob which must be held, or where someone is playing with more than they can handle (blappers, anyone?) somewhere else and not bringing them in to the flood.


I'm not going for this in my next iteration of Fluixic, but it is on the table for another possible iteration later.

For the record, I LOVE playing with Tankers - I know how to coordinate herding and aggro with them, and once they know that I know, we'll often herd together and bring holy hell to the enemy.

wyldhaunt:
...and more on this


--- Quote ---Your only challenge would be to figure out what else you want to do while those three powers recharge ... which isn't that bad of a problem to have, all things considered ...
--- End quote ---

Suffocate (base recharge 8s) and Deluge (base recharge 5s) already recharge so fast with my build that I only have a split-second down-time. That's one reason I'm considering one - and only one - other ST power to add to this. I have been looking at Time Stop, however its base recharge is 16s, so it'd be used every other rotation rather than every. Time Crawl's base recharge is also 15 sec, so I could add this in to help Time Stop on the next rotation and debuff more. But Time Stop's activation is 2.17s, which is pretty dang slow compared to others, so using it might actually slow me down.

Ponderings.

Also, while I digest and respect numbers, what I experience in-game is the final determinant, which means lots of experimentation!

Redlynne:

--- Quote from: wyldhaunt on October 17, 2022, 03:59:09 pm ---Even so, I've found some proc potential for Suffocate and Deluge based on your Ninja/Time MM build, which I'm going to try next, especially since my goal for improvement is in ST damage.
--- End quote ---

And here is the benefit of experience and knowing what you want out of your playstyle and preferred engagement strategy. Figuring out what is redundant enough to not need is absolutely critical ... and in order to do that you need to synthesize and synergize EVERYTHING that your build is doing for you in a sense of Totality. Only then can you figure out THIS=YES vs THAT=NO like you're doing here, which is good!

Just because a particular layout of powers and slots combination works well for a different Archetype in a different context doesn't necessarily mean that the same will hold true for your Archetype in the context of your playstyle and strategy preferences (different strokes for different folks and all that jazz). What's important is understanding the THINKING behind the choices so as to make value judgements that work best for YOU and YOUR STYLE of play!



And just so you know, I've been "refactoring" my Ninja/Time/Mace build already (already!) so as to shuffle just a few things around and come up with something even scarier than what I posted previously.

The changes amount to:
[*]Drop Smoke Flash (@ 18)
[*]Drop Vengeance (@ 49)
[*]Remove one slot from Temporal Mending (and reshuffle the sequencing of other slots between 31-42 as a consequence)
[*]Move Maneuvers from Level 24 down to Level 18
[*]Move Tactics from Level 30 down to Level 24
[*]Add Hasten (@ 30)
[*]Give Hasten a second slot (@ 31)
[*]Add Victory Rush (@49)
[*]5-slot Temporal Mending with the Regenerative Tissue set instead of 6-slotting with the Panacea set
[*]Replace the Regenerative Tissue proc in Health with the Panacea proc (ditching the rest of the Panacea set from the build)
[*]Swap the common 50 Endurance Mod IOs in Health for End Mod and End Mod/Acc set IOs in Stamina in order to claim the Performance Shifter 3-slot bonus[/list]

The "core powers" of the build remain the same, but by throwing away Smoke Flash (which really ought to have been an "ALL Pets" within supremacy range effect, rather than a "Pick ONE Pet" single target effect!) I can fit Maneuvers, Tactics AND Hasten into the build by Level 30 before reaching the "mandatory" power picks at Levels 32 (pet power up 2), Level 35 (Slowed Response), Level 38 (Chrono Shift), Level 41 (Scorpion Shield) and Level 44 (Power Boost!). Furthermore, Hasten isn't "really needed" until Chrono Shift anyway, and taking the power at Level 30 ensures that when Hasten is available at Exemplar Levels 25-50 it won't be too terribly nerfed on slotted recharge value by the Exemplar condition. Of course, Hasten isn't perma without Chrono Shift (and ipso facto, Chrono Shift isn't perma without Hasten, but since Hasten "comes first" in power pick order, this isn't a problem for Exemplar) ... but it does mean that the entire build will "shift in character" with respect to how it plays in the low levels vs the mid levels vs the high levels vs the incarnate levels, with a "growth curve" that never really plateaus until into the Incarnate slotting regime.

Working on finalizing the changes now and trying to wring any last possible performance gains out of the build (through slot allocation sequencing) before posting the update. Needless to say, ditching the (full) Panacea set in favor of the rarely seen (in full) Regenerative Tissue set dramatically reduces the overall cost of the build in total ... while having Victory Rush as a Level 49 power will do all kinds of wonderful for team play in the Level 44+ range (which tends to be the heaviest for team oriented content in TFs/SFs, Trials and Raids), so definitely a "game changer" right at the end of the build!

Previously, I was just using Vengeance as a LotG proc mule ... but with Hasten in the mix, Vengeance as a LotG mule was no longer necessary, so ... enter the Victory Rush!


--- Quote from: wyldhaunt on October 17, 2022, 04:27:33 pm ---
--- Quote ---Being able to enact Area Denial OVER THERE through use of Distortion Field and Slowed Response (AoE at range) while ALSO maintaining Area Denial OVER HERE through Turbulent Aura and Time's Juncture (PBAoE) to protect squishy allies from "leakers" who like to melee would give you a powerful combination of simultaneous NEAR AND FAR area denial that would go a long way in team context settings as a Battlefield Controller. No, it wouldn't necessarily represent a "hard" lockdown capability like AoE Holds do ... but it would represent an exceptionally powerful "neutralizer" capability that renders hordes of Foes relatively "harmless" even if they aren't completely locked down "hard" like a Hold would accomplish. Your damage mitigation value would be exceptionally high, giving both yourself and your team "all the time in the world" to defeat your adversaries Wholesale Rather Than Retail™.
--- End quote ---

More on this - this idea has a hell of a lot of merit, because there are plenty of times on a team already where I use my aura and LAoE powers already where I am, and ST hold/damage someone away from where I am. However my current playstyle is to draw as many to me as possible, rather than keeping them where they are - except possibly that one range-preference mob which must be held, or where someone is playing with more than they can handle (blappers, anyone?) somewhere else and not bringing them in to the flood.
--- End quote ---

And this is a perfectly fine way to play.
Some Controllers play more like "magnets" who want to be up close in the thick of things (Dark and Kinetics types come to mind, for somewhat obvious reasons) while others are more "repellent" to play (preferring to play Keep Away instead) ... sometimes you get a mix of push/pull in the build strategy that lets you "mode switch" between the two options, depending on what you're up against. This is not a ONE SIZE FITS ALL TRICK PONIES type of ride we've got here to play with. Different strategies have different strengths against different opponents and circumstances.

What's important is that you understand the ... mentality ... behind HOW you intent to use your build and how it engages opposition (to ruin their day!). When you use the same tools differently, you can get VERY different results! The trick is organizing it all into a strategy where everything you DO helps you achieve what you're wanting to accomplish (or to put it another way, that your animation time is doing everything it can WHEN you need it to be doing things) ... and THAT is going to be the Real Challenge involved in settling on an Ideal Build FOR YOU.

Redlynne:

--- Quote from: wyldhaunt on October 17, 2022, 04:44:40 pm ---I have been looking at Time Stop, however its base recharge is 16s, so it'd be used every other rotation rather than every. Time Crawl's base recharge is also 15 sec, so I could add this in to help Time Stop on the next rotation and debuff more. But Time Stop's activation is 2.17s, which is pretty dang slow compared to others, so using it might actually slow me down.
--- End quote ---

Yes, Time Crawl and Time Stop have "long" recharge times of 15-16 seconds ... but that's what makes them proc monsters with a 90% chance to activate procs that are slotted into them.

Also, you can think of Time Crawl+Time Stop as being "palette cleanser" type powers to alternate with other parts of your single target attack chain. The arcanatime for Time Crawl is 1.848s and for Time Stop is 2.376s ... for a total of 4.224s of animation time. If you've got other powers in your single target chain that take up to 4.224s to recharge, you can use the "long" casting time but reliable 90% proc rate of Time Crawl+Time Stop to "reset" the recharge on the rest of your single target attack chain in order to "go again" after throwing out Time Crawl+Time Stop at a single target.

Or if you're in a hurry, you can "alternate" between Time Crawl and Time Stop on alternating rotations of your attack chain, like you said.

As always, the daemonolgy is in the details and how you build the "chain of events" for spending your animation time, but adding Time Crawl and Time Stop into the mix will allow you to ... diversify ... your options in ways that might surprise you, especially if you're needing to reach for some really rapid lockdown (for whatever reason).

wyldhaunt:

--- Quote ---Yes, Time Crawl and Time Stop have "long" recharge times of 15-16 seconds ... but that's what makes them proc monsters with a 90% chance to activate procs that are slotted into them.
--- End quote ---

This is something for me to source and learn more about - as I've said before, procmonstering is a growing edge for me. I'll research more on this, as I'd like to understand more about the why the chance to activate is 90% for these. I am implying from this that procs are more valuable for reliability per cast in longer-recharge powers. However, if I'm reading that correctly, I'd like to understand the average over time (like over a minute) of slotting (for example Unbreakable Constraint's %Smash) in base-16s-rech Time Stop rather than base-8s-rech Suffocate. If the PPM for both is the same (I understand it is), and Global Recharge (from sets and such) affect both the same, but Time Stop also has a greater activation time than Suffocate, in which power would a proc average more damage over time. Then add in Suffocate's own damage (compared to Time Stop's zero), and consider again. Ofc for non-global unique procs, I could put them in both, balancing what I'd want from regular enhancements to the powers (being careful with any recharge due to PPM) and any set bonuses with the procs involved.

Below is the latest of what I'm considering. I'm not procmonstering Time Stop, but Suffocate and Deluge instead - Time Stop ends up being a mule for set bonuses. It's an interim step as I consider procs in the longer-recharge vs shorter-recharge powers.

https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1786&c=785&a=1570&f=HEX&dc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