Alien Invasion MM summoning power set

[Joshex]

I would hereby like to suggest a new MM primary powerset.

Muon or someone, can you please think about this?

Alien Summoning/Alien Invasion Power Set

The powers would likely include the following;

Alien Pistol (Ranged, Energy, Minor Damage, KB, Disorient)
Available Level 1

Spoiler: ShowHide

Original: Enlist Rikti (Summon 1 to 3 Rikti Conscripts and or Infantry to fight for you)

Enlist Rikti (Summon any of the following: 1 to 3 Rikti Conscripts, and or Infantry, or 2 to 6 rikti monkies, or 1 to 5 drones to fight for you)
Available Level 1

Spoiler: ShowHide

at level 1 to 10 you'll get either 1 conscript, or 1 infantry, or 2 monkies, or 2 drones. From 11 to 20 you'll get either 2 conscript and/or infantry, or 4 monkies, or 3 drones, or a mix 1 conscript/infantry per every 2 monkies, per every 1.5 drones(roughly). And from 21+; 3 conscript/infantry, or 6 monkies, or 5 drones, or a mix.

Spoiler: ShowHide

Original: Release the Rikti Monkey (summon 1 to 4 rikti monkies to aide you)

Alien Rifle (Ranged, Energy, High Damage, Disorient)
Available Level 2

Modify Aliens (this power lets you upgrade 2 existing aliens of the type targetted ONCE, to a more powerful alien of that type if available. I.E. Conscript/Infantry > Guardian (no communications officer)> Headman OR Headman Gunman OR Cheif Mentalist(Lieut)> Chief [soldier, blaster, mezmerist] > Magus, or Rularuu watcher> observer> overseer i.e. Rikti Monkey > Wild Rikti Monkey > Vicious Rikti Monkey > N/A [Yet! = Rikti Gorilla (need graphics)], Drone > Improved Drone > Advanced Drone> Heavy Suit, Shivan> Shivan Smasher > Shivan Destroyer > Shivan Decimator. It buffs all other aliens with +HP +Perception +Accuracy +Damge)
Available level 6

Spoiler: ShowHide

If this power modifies an alien to another tier (conscript>guardian I.E.), the effect is permanent till defeat and/or resummon, if cast on an alien which has no next teir, I.E Vicious Rikti Monkey, Heavy Assault Suit(Drone), or Magus, overseer etc. (end tier) then it'll be a temporary buff as specified (+HP, Perception acc dam)
Only 2 of your aliens can be upgraded to Lieutenant at a time. If you select an alien and cast Modify Aliens, it and one other from it's summon will be upgraded to Lieutenant, if there are no others in it's summon it will upgrade at random 1 upgradable alien from another summon (if you have any other aliens out), for all other summoned aliens it will give them a permanent buff until defeat or resummon. Aliens summoned by "Summon Elite Alien" only get the buff regardless if they are the only alien summoned.

Spoiler: ShowHide

Original: Build Drone (Summon 1 to 2 rikti drones to fight for you)

After rethinking this could be several things:
Explosive Blast (Targeted AoE, Extreme Damage Smash/Energy, Knockback) (from Ruladak the Strong)
Total Domination (Targetted AoE, Minor Damage Psionic, Foe Hold) (Rikti Priest)
Available Level 8

Summon Rularuu (Summon at random Rularuu Watchers, Wisps, Natterlings or Brutes (minions) to aide you in combat)
Available Level 12

Spoiler: ShowHide

 The fact these are upgradable to a more powerful tier when using Modify Alien makes up for the loss in "at summon" power because they are minions.
This power summons 1 random rularuu when the character is low level, if you use it again, it unsummons your last rularuu and replaces it with another random rularuu. At higher levels it Summons 2 Random Rularuu

Invasion Portal (Defeatable, Field at location, for X minutes this power will summon a max of 5 minions at random from this location. If 5 are summoned this way and any are defeated while time remains on this field's cast; it will summon random replacements. Pets summoned this way will continue to exist even after the field has expired (until dismissed, or defeated, or leaving the map).
Available Level 18 - Rikti Communications Officers have a similar power (to summon conscripts and infantry)

Spoiler: ShowHide

Does not interfere with other summons, if you have a rularuu, drone, or shivan summoned, this power can summon up to 5 extras, for multi summon type pets it only summons 1 additional pet to a max of 5 extras). It's probably better that this power summon Tier 1 pets, Conscript, Infantry, Rikti Monkey, Drone, Watcher, Wisp, Natterling, Brute, Nictus Essence, Black Dwarf, Dark Nova, White Dwarf, Bright Nova, Maaxigada'arzildiloan minions (Like Dillo, but minion)), or Shivan (this power will not summon i.e. a Shivan Smasher -> Decimator, modify alien only grants a buff to these spawns! it will not upgrade them to a higher tier!)

Summon Elite Alien (summon at random a Shivan, or Honored Brute, or Overseer, or Wisp Overlord, or Chief Mentalist, or Chief Mezmerist, or Chief Soldier, or Rikti Magus(boss or Lv-2 Elite Boss), or Heavy Assault Suit to help you in battle)
Available Level 26


Alien Goo (Location AoE, Targets: (upgrade)+Def, +Res, +Damage, +Status Resistance(Sleep, Held, Immobilize, KB))
Available Level 32


I'm interested to see what people think.


Pros: we have the graphics for the summons, we have the stats and attack anims already done, all the pet powers are already in place. it's a great balance of Psionic, toxic energy, smashing and lethal

Cons: Ayyy lmao! and it might cause confusion if players can't color code their aliens different than the normal spawns. (not sure if these enemies textures support color changes)

This is a rough draft. Muon might need to look at it.

as a rough draft I imagine powers could be swaped around. maybe including all rikti in one summon power similar to rularuu. where you randomly get a Conscript, monkey, or drone.. not sure. the devs will have to consider that as this set at current is very Pet heavy more so than any other set.

Edits in blue

[OminousUndead]

I like the idea

[Joshex]

Has there been any progress towards this idea? like have the devs learned anything that would make this more possible?

[SilverAgeFan]

Our team does have a decent understanding of what makes MMs tick under the hood and all the assets required to properly flesh out a new powerset. Right now the obstacle is one of production schedule. As you might imagine, a new MM primary represents the most resource intensive of possibly any new powerset to make from scratch.

Note that the team is working to move away from powersets that feel like recycled or even upcycled elements of existing assets.

We definitely want to bring the server some new MM primaries. Your set proposal, in its broad strokes, has been definitely been noticed and discussed by the powerset developers on our team. But I cannot at this juncture confirm or deny any new MM primaries that may or may not currently be in production.

[BradleyIFV]

I know that it's good to have someone think outside the box compared to old standards, but this is a very odd set compared to anything currently available to Masterminds.

Level 1 power options are usually 1) a basic ranged attack, or 2) the "minion" pet power.  This suggestion uses the same basic format, but I do not agree on the delayed delivery of the 2nd and 3rd minions - all other MMs have their full complement by 26.  It would really be weird for that to be particular to this set, but I'd still not be in favor of that as an across-the-board MM change.  Also the ranged attack 1) is very similar in basic effect to the existing Robotics pulse rifle, 2) has the damage of a typical 2nd ranged attack, and 3) sports a Disorient on top of the Robotics' level 2 PR Burst's Knockback.

Level 2 is usually a more advanced ranged attack (although you've basically already done that with the level 1 ranged attack), but this suggestion is for another set of pets.  Comparatively, it's OP as it's either free damage, free hit points (enemies fire on pets vs. MM), or both.

Level 6 is hilariously OP as the MM can just take a little longer to cycle buff their pets over and over, and not just the standard 3x level 1, 2x level 12, and single level 26 pets either.

Level 8 is usually the final ranged attack, often either a cone or AoE attack, but the non-spoiler description is written like the normal level 12 "lieutenant" pet power.  if the power as written was just slotted in at level 12, I would probably have no immediate issue with it (except for the ludicrous initial over-upgrade power).

Level 12 is usually the "lieutenant" pet power - this is another pet power, but there's already an "Lt" pet power, this is a single pet, and it's also over-upgradeable.  Very OP.

Level 18 is just wow - auto-resummoning portal, up to 5 active pets that last until defeat, and can be over-upgraded.

Level 26 is a "boss" pet power that again would be fine, except for over-upgrade.

Level 32 is even worse/funnier than level 18 - AoE allies FULL heal + Clear Mind + DEF & DRES buffs.  Normally this would be the 2nd upgrade for just the standard 3/2/1 pets, but that's not needed because of the level 6 over-upgrade.

If this was just supposed to be a joke set, haha, you got me.  If not, there's no way this could be viewed as a legitimate set suggestion.  I'm sorry to be crapping on this so hard, but it's just bad.  I'm not even sure how I would rework the set to be closer to a standard MM set.  Maybe if it was more of a Rikti set than a generalized "alien" set, I would do the following:

Rikti Pistol (Energy)
Lvl 1 Moderate Dmg, c/f Disorient
Lvl 2 High Dmg/DoT, c/f Disorient
Lvl 8 s/t High Dmg/DoT, Disorient, maybe another effect

Pets
Lvl 1 Footmen (Infantry (sword then pistol), then Conscript (rifle then sword), then Guardian (maybe just Radiation powers rather than FF too))
Lvl 12 Headmen (sword and rifle, then TP)
Lvl 26 Chief (either Mentalist or Mesmerist (sword and psychic blast))

Other
Lvl 6 1st upgrade (second weapons for Footmen, 2nd buff for Guardian, TP for Headmen, 1st mez for Chiefs)
Lvl 18 Monkey Portal (Gang War, but with Rikti monkeys)
Lvl 32 2nd upgrade (not sure what to add to each that would be consistent with established lore)

[Joshex]

For number of summons: this would not be a change accross the board for other sets. And was merely a suggestion, the devs have the knowledge to ignore it and do it the traditional way if it'd cause gameplay difficulty to be unbalanced for this specific power set.

Attack 1: actually, As you'll note there Disorient was an edit I made, I too expected it'd be identical to the robotics blaster, but I was wrong I give you the official information from the wiki on Rikti blasters: https://wiki.cityofheroesrebirth.com/wiki/Rikti

Rikti Rifle Ranged, Energy, Foe Knockback, Disorient
The Rikti Rifle takes a while to recharge, but deals a lot of damage and can Knockback and Disorient foes.

Rikti Pistol Ranged, Energy, Foe Disorient
The Rikti pistol deals nominal damage, but can Disorient its target.

on the headgunman:

Rikti Rifle Ranged, Energy, Foe Knockdown, Disorient
The Rikti Gunman has a powerful cannon built into his armor. This weapon takes a while to recharge, but deals a lot of damage and can Knockdown and Disorient foes.

As you can see it's a theme in Rikti Weapons. As such though originally I just made it what I thought a blaster would be like, I was forced to add Disorient allong with KB or KD because thats how this specific weapon (which is already in CoH) comes. Also do note in purple, the damage type is Only Energy. Robotics Pulse Rifle is Energy/Smash. Therefore it's actually different enough.

As for attack intensity It really depends on the set, the 1st power in a set can vary wildly anywhere from minor damage to high damage. never seen it above that for a first tier power, but yes high is possible. I've not seen it on an MM set before, others are Minor, Moderate or Minor DoT but rikti weapons are no joke hence high in fact if you look at the damage they do in game when held by the rikti it's definitely High damage. But lets get into the reasons:

Light/Minor is <50, Moderate is around 50, High is around 100

From the descriptions posted:
Rikti Pistol = Minor Damage (key word "Nominal")
Rikti Rifle = High Damage (key words "a lot of damage")

likely it'll be the rifle as that would be in theme for MMs, thus A lot of (High) damage.


Level 2, yes this set was devised to be pet heavy (it is an "Invasion" after all the idea is tons of pet damage to chew through things and not much else), the goal was to fit-in all the various "aliens" in the game (except nictus). This one is rikti monkies, which are kinda weak in the HP and def/res department, keeping them healed would be an issue as in this set you only get 1 AoE heal and it's click type and very long recharge. Modify Alien at Level 6 doesn't heal, it just increases the Max HP of something (Once) that means it wont stack unless stacked by another player. Rikti Monkies are not that OP. yes they have psionic damage (which most enemies don't have def/res to) but keeping them alive is going to be the challenge you'd have to take the medicine pool, and Boss Aoe will likely toast them. Making their summon have a longer recharge time might balance it to prevent you from summoning them faster than they can be AoE fragged.

level 6: all MM's get an upgrade power of some sort at this level. The difference here is you are basically swapping the alien for a stronger alien in the same group, thats all. simply because Infantry/Conscript are kinda fodder HP-wise as are most other summons in this set at thier base value. they have less HP than pets in other sets so upgrading to a stronger alien will increase their HP and make them roughly equivalent in ability to stand to other sets. Suggesting limits to this is understandable, as typed below under Invasion Portal (L18) it'll probably be fair to limit the player to 1 Magus, or alternatively 1 Max upgrade pet of Summon Power Levels 1, or 8, and +1 at L26. Rikti Conscript/Infantry (to Magus),or Drone (To Heavy Assault Suit) and +1 Shivan ( the rest wont upgrade past the Tier below that; Rikti (Chief [something]), Drone (Advanced Drone), Shivan (Smasher or Destroyer whatever is fair)

The reason I don't include rikti monkies or the shivan are for 2 different reasons, the most dangerous rikti monkey is the Vicious Rikti Monkey which TBH is ... really not much different from the lowest form in HP nor intensity, it's the equivalent of going from a Minion to a Minion (if Rikti Gorillas ever get made, then yeah limit it with the rest), and the Shivan is intended to be a boss class (though it starts as a non-boss!) https://wiki.cityofheroesrebirth.com/wiki/Shivans ("Shivan" is the Minion Class of this group. Shivan Decimator is the EB.

In this entire set only 3 summons can become EB (and this could be Player-Level restricted! in Modify Alien!) Rikti, Drone, and Shivan, by limiting the player to summonning Either a EB Rikti OR Drone and one EB Shivan they get 2 EBs max.


Level 18: is already in-game!:

Transponder Build Transponder
The Rikti Communications Officer can create an inter-dimensional Transponder. Other Rikti soldiers can teleport in through this Transponder to join their allies. This power is interruptible. The Transponder can be destroyed.

"The Transponder can Be Destroyed" this is what makes it not OP. That and summons via it are delayed. in game from memory you get 1 summon every 10? to 25? seconds. At 10 seconds you would need nearly 1 minute to summon 5 (MAX) Fodder class aliens. Maybe these should not be upgradable IF you already have the normal summon of that type upgraded. So if you had Infantry/Conscripts from your L1 power upgraded to Chief[something] (maybe limit the player to 1 Magus I.E.) then the conscripts/infantry summoned via invasion portal will not be able to upgrade till one of your upgraded aliens of that type dies or is unsummoned.

Balancing a power like this is possible.

Level 8: again All Pets In This Set Are Summoned at Minion Class even the drones! to make them a lieut you'd have to upgrade after summoning (the amount of Modified aliens of Any tier could be player-level-restricted. I.E.  1 Lieut till 12, at 12 you could be allowed 2, and at 26+ more. could even do no boss or higher from modify alien till 26 and you only get 2 EB. Shivan and 1 other; Drone or Rikti others don't have EB.

In this set, there is only 1 ranged attack available to the player. If they want more they'll have to get it from pools or ancillaries. that means that unlike other MMs this set has very little ability to stand without pets, and most of it's pets are Fodder-kill initially, the player will have to struggle to keep pets summoned as they barely have their own recourses to defend themselves (1 high damage attack). This is a fair trade. especially with restrictions set on Modify Alien to limit the number of each tier of alien based on player level.


Level 12, a single summon of a non-Lieut, you'd have to upgrade it. and as specified before we can set limits. making this power actually weak.

L26: the Shivan is a Minion class at summon. it takes alot of upgrading to get it to EB.

L32: the ONLY heal power in this set. Very Long Recharge. again if L6 limits the number of upgrades to each tier, I.E. at L50; 2 EB OR 2 Boss, 3 Lieut, max# minion (5+3). then L6 is not an overpowered buff, and with the recharge on this one it's not overpowered either. It's a temporary buff basically for pets that sould survive a hit by something nasty this allows them to have a second chance to attack before being defeated. it also heals and buffs other players in the area temporarily but again Very Long Recharge so not that frequently. It might last 3 minutes as a buff and likely a 6 minute+ recharge time. even at -100% rech so it's practically auto, thats a heal every 3 minutes!. it has it's strengths, it has it's weaknesses.

this was the idea behind all these. It can be balanced as is. It's not a joke set at all. it's Ayyyy.

[BradleyIFV]

Lvl 1 Call Swarm, "Light" (i.e., Minor) DoT (Lethal), Foe -SPD -DEF
Lvl 1 Corruption, Minor DMG (Fire), Minor DoT (Toxic), Foe -RES
Lvl 1 Burst, Moderate DoT (Lethal), Foe -DEF
Lvl 1 Dark Blast, Moderate DMG (Negative), Foe -ToHit
Lvl 1 Snap Shot, Minor DMG (Lethal)
Lvl 1 PR Blast, Moderate DMG (Energy/Smash)
Lvl 1 Pistols, Minor DMG (Lethal)

Lvl 1 Alien Rifle, High DMG (Energy), Knockback, Disorient

All of the existing 1st level personal attack powers for Masterminds do either Minor or Moderate damage (all at once or over time), and most of them add in one or two Foe debuffs (that Ninjas and Thugs both do just Minor damage without debuffs is hilarious, plus Snap Shot is only Fast speed). None of them have High damage -  none of them have mezzes. Your 1st level personal attack power is High damage, PLUS a soft control (KB) AND a mezz (Disorient). It doesn't matter what enemy attack power it's based off, it's OP for a 1st level character's ranged attack. Going with Moderate damage and a chance for Disorient is far closer to being in line with its peers.

Modify Alien at Level 6 doesn't heal, it just increases the Max HP of something (Once) that means it wont stack unless stacked by another player.

Is this trying to say that the owning Mastermind can only upgrade his pets once each, but other MMs (just Alien Invasion MMs, or any MMs?) can upgrade them further?

You're summoning up to 16 pets, none of which are time-limited, most of which are eligible for upgrades to their capabilities at minimum, if not their fighting rank (BTW, what is "Fodder" rank supposed to be?). Short of the Gang War-type powers (which are underling-rank, time-limited, and non-upgradeable), nothing gives an MM that many pets. If you had attack powers that basically summoned a one-shot pet (closer to Call Swarm/Hawk/Ravens), that might work, but not... this.

[Joshex]

Lvl 1 Call Swarm, "Light" (i.e., Minor) DoT (Lethal), Foe -SPD -DEF
Lvl 1 Corruption, Minor DMG (Fire), Minor DoT (Toxic), Foe -RES
Lvl 1 Burst, Moderate DoT (Lethal), Foe -DEF
Lvl 1 Dark Blast, Moderate DMG (Negative), Foe -ToHit
Lvl 1 Snap Shot, Minor DMG (Lethal)
Lvl 1 PR Blast, Moderate DMG (Energy/Smash)
Lvl 1 Pistols, Minor DMG (Lethal)

Lvl 1 Alien Rifle, High DMG (Energy), Knockback, Disorient

All of the existing 1st level personal attack powers for Masterminds do either Minor or Moderate damage (all at once or over time), and most of them add in one or two Foe debuffs (that Ninjas and Thugs both do just Minor damage without debuffs is hilarious, plus Snap Shot is only Fast speed). None of them have High damage -  none of them have mezzes. Your 1st level personal attack power is High damage, PLUS a soft control (KB) AND a mezz (Disorient). It doesn't matter what enemy attack power it's based off, it's OP for a 1st level character's ranged attack. Going with Moderate damage and a chance for Disorient is far closer to being in line with its peers.

Modify Alien at Level 6 doesn't heal, it just increases the Max HP of something (Once) that means it wont stack unless stacked by another player.

Is this trying to say that the owning Mastermind can only upgrade his pets once each, but other MMs (just Alien Invasion MMs, or any MMs?) can upgrade them further?

You're summoning up to 16 pets, none of which are time-limited, most of which are eligible for upgrades to their capabilities at minimum, if not their fighting rank (BTW, what is "Fodder" rank supposed to be?). Short of the Gang War-type powers (which are underling-rank, time-limited, and non-upgradeable), nothing gives an MM that many pets. If you had attack powers that basically summoned a one-shot pet (closer to Call Swarm/Hawk/Ravens), that might work, but not... this.

you're not reading clearly.

1: most MM's get several ranged attacks., this set only gets 1. hence making it high damage.

2: Modify Alien is supposed to raise the rank of the alien if possible. (limiting to 1 Boss or Elite Boss from normal summons + 1 Shivan to Boss or Elite Boss) if not possible it allows a Single buff of +HP +Perception +Accuracy +Damage. Only the pet owner can Raise the rank of their own aliens, but another MM can cast modify alien onto any pet of any friendly owner to give +HP +Perception +Accuracy +Damage to that pet as an additional buff (stacking) so i.e. 8 MMs casting it on one Rikti Magus will stack the buff no more than 8 times.

3: fodder, implies that Boss and higher enemies can likely 1 or 2 shot them and will likely die from AoE within a few hits. They merely run in get in a smack or 2 and then die. this is simply because of low HP and no defense nor res.

4: the invasion portal is kinda a hallmark of the set, it summons extra minions while the portal is not destroyed for X time limit (probably 3 minutes). once those minions die, they can only be replaced if the portal is open and slowly at the portal's own summon iteration. Keep in mind the portal does not follow you nor move; so any pets spawned by it at too far a distance to see you or enemies will likely just stand there at the spawn point and not help you (Unlike normal MM pets they could be set to act more like mobs where they don't respond to MM Pet Control calls). This would solve your dispute, as they would then not follow you off the map or to a different section of the map. They would likely then be automatically de-summoned one by one if you were to re-summon the invasion portal as that new portal is ready to summon. obviously only 1 invasion portal can be summoned by each player at one time.

The exception to the Rule would be if you upgrade them to another rank (then they will respond to pet cues, follow etc.), but that would then count them as one of your normal summons, and would only be possible if your normal summons are not already out and not upgraded or one of your normal summons from a multi-summon died.

this way they are location limited pets, rather than time limited. but being minions they are likely not going to last long anyways. This also means that the portal needs to be summoned close enough to your enemy for the pets spawned that way to see the enemy. which in the case of AVs etc puts the portal in danger.

[BradleyIFV]

you're not reading clearly.

1: most MM's get several ranged attacks., this set only gets 1. hence making it high damage.

2: Modify Alien is supposed to raise the rank of the alien if possible. (limiting to 1 Boss or Elite Boss from normal summons + 1 Shivan to Boss or Elite Boss) if not possible it allows a Single buff of +HP +Perception +Accuracy +Damage. Only the pet owner can Raise the rank of their own aliens, but another MM can cast modify alien onto any pet of any friendly owner to give +HP +Perception +Accuracy +Damage to that pet as an additional buff (stacking) so i.e. 8 MMs casting it on one Rikti Magus will stack the buff no more than 8 times.

3: fodder, implies that Boss and higher enemies can likely 1 or 2 shot them and will likely die from AoE within a few hits. They merely run in get in a smack or 2 and then die. this is simply because of low HP and no defense nor res.

4: the invasion portal is kinda a hallmark of the set, it summons extra minions while the portal is not destroyed for X time limit (probably 3 minutes). once those minions die, they can only be replaced if the portal is open and slowly at the portal's own summon iteration. Keep in mind the portal does not follow you nor move; so any pets spawned by it at too far a distance to see you or enemies will likely just stand there at the spawn point and not help you (Unlike normal MM pets they could be set to act more like mobs where they don't respond to MM Pet Control calls). This would solve your dispute, as they would then not follow you off the map or to a different section of the map. They would likely then be automatically de-summoned one by one if you were to re-summon the invasion portal as that new portal is ready to summon. obviously only 1 invasion portal can be summoned by each player at one time.

The exception to the Rule would be if you upgrade them to another rank (then they will respond to pet cues, follow etc.), but that would then count them as one of your normal summons, and would only be possible if your normal summons are not already out and not upgraded or one of your normal summons from a multi-summon died.

this way they are location limited pets, rather than time limited. but being minions they are likely not going to last long anyways. This also means that the portal needs to be summoned close enough to your enemy for the pets spawned that way to see the enemy. which in the case of AVs etc puts the portal in danger.

Tell you what: why don't you explain some things to me.

Your one direct attack by the MM is High damage with Knockback (both are first seen (each and together) in lvl 2 attacks) and Disorient (only seen in one lvl 8 attack, Photon Grenade (Robotics)), and it's available at lvl 1. If this one attack was available later in the set rather than at first (no earlier than lvl 6), it might make some sense, but it's OP as a lvl 1 power. How does having it as a lvl 1 power not just give the MM more power because you're getting rid of the normal (i.e., weaker) lvl 1 attack in favor of more pets that can become at least Lieutenants (normally lvl 12 power) if not Boss (normally lvl 26)/Elite Boss (normally... never) level?

If your decently-leveled MM (say 39th level) steps into a fight with no pets active, they can summon:

• Three "fodder" Conscripts or Infantry
• Four "fodder" Rikti Monkeys
• Two "fodder" Rikti Drones
• One "fodder" Rularuu unit
• One "fodder" Shivan unit
• An Invasion Portal, which then periodically summons "fodder" pets (though you say in the latest comment that they're Minions) until five from this source exist (and if any are defeated while Portal is active, it continues to summon to get back to five), and those pets can be of any type available (but not more than 5 of any grouping)

Then the MM can drop a single Modify Alien casting on the group - they are ALL now Minions, or do they jump all the way up to Lieutenants at this point, since you only show three (fodder/minion, LT, Boss) or four (up to EB) tiers?

Then the MM may want to have two (one Shivan and one other) of their now-LTs become Bosses - how do they choose (whichever one is the target of the casting?), or can they even (i.e., just random)? If the Modify Alien is cast on a group, then one (either the non-Shivan selected or random) becomes a Boss, along with the nearby Shivan, and the rest of those affected get a permanent-until-defeated buff to MaxHP, Perception, Accuracy, and Damage. A subsequent casting of Modify Alien would bump the two Boss pets to Elite Boss level, but wouldn't otherwise again perma-buff the rest of the pets, right? And then one last casting of MA to finally perma-buff the two Elite Bosses.

• As an aside, would a 6th level Alien Invasion MM be able to upgrade his pets to Lieutenants right away, or would it just be the buff? What about to Boss or Elite Boss levels?

Also if any other Alien Invasion MM casts Modify Alien on/near this MM's pets, the buffs provided by those castings stack (but just once each) AND are permanent-until-defeated - do their castings of Modify Alien affect any other MM pets, or do any other MMs using other primary powersets have their upgrade powers affect any other MMs' pets, whether this Alien Invasion MM or any other powerset?

How many of the above pets have full MM controls applied to them? The Conscripts/Infantry, the Drones, and the Shivan only? The Rikti Monkeys? The Rularuu unit? I think you mention something in your explanations of the Invasion Portal that its pets MAY be uncontrolled, but they could be if any of the "controllable" pets are currently not on the map.

So for the following sets, here's what we have for possible pets on the map:

• Beast Mastery, three Minions, two LTs, one Boss, three different single-attack "pets"
• Demon Summoning, three Minions, two LTs, one Boss, one buff on pet periodically spawns time-limited uncontrolled Underlings
• Mercenaries, three Minions, two LTs, one Boss
• Necromancy, three Minions, two LTs, one Boss, one (ore more?) time-limited(?) Ghosts from Soul Extraction
• Ninjas, three Minions, two LTs, one Boss
• Robotics, three Minions, two LTs, one Boss
• Thugs, three Minions, two LTs, one Boss,
• Alien Invasion, 14 LTs (or just 9 max, with another 5 left at "fodder"/Minion level), two Elite Bosses

Anything wrong here?

Most MM sets would have three controllable pet powers to cast, and then two upgrade powers (lvl 6 and lvl 32) to cast on them, and maybe one other power for a pet or pets that are uncontrolled. Alien Invasion has five controllable pet powers to cast, along with another summon power, and then a single upgrade power to cast up to five times. Oh and the other summon power's pets CAN become controlled if they replace normally-controlled pets that are defeated, rather than having to cast the particular summon power.

Last question: you do realize how insane this sounds? I'll leave aside any and all questions of balance (and there are even more than what I have above), and just point out how difficult it would be to program such a monstrosity. Including the OP aspects, I would not expect something like this to fly on Rebirth, based on their stated preference to hew closely to Live gameplay standards. Honestly it looks like a half-attempt at some sort of Epic AT versus a Mastermind powerset - if you had written it up that way, I might have given you the benefit of the doubt, but not this.

[Joshex]

first of all, let me say thank you for expressing your concerns. this helps refine it or add rules to make it more balanced. In response to your arguements I have had to add suspected rules to limit the powers. however as a second note, be advised that I am in no way a decision maker here, so everything we are discussing is merely a suggestion for the real devs to consider. they have expressed that they plan to use something along these lines but not necessarily an MM but have not specified what that means. and by "along these lines" they mean not exactly as posted.

with that disclaimer. lets continue and address your points.

1. it seems you didn't read the note in my last post about limiting the number of lieutenants and bosses/EBs. That would mean maybe 2 Lieutenants MAX. 1+1 Boss or EB. any other aliens would not be able to raise thier class.. they'd be stuck with just a temporary accuracy and damage buff + a little temporary raise in max HP and stay as minions.

Also you can only cast modify alien on one target at a time you can't drop it on the whole group at once in one shot. so you'd have to wait till it recharges for each cast for each target. which means the buff will likely wear off whatever aliens you buffed maybe half way into the second cast and when slotted with - rech enhancements maybe into the 3rd cast allowing you to buff 3 aliens max at any one time before it starts wearing off. upgrade to higher tier does not wear off.

This kinda changes a lot. it means the summons are really not that much more powerful than other sets, just having more minions. now add that it has only 1 player attack with a moderate to long recharge time.

and heres where we discuss trades. Power can be bought. but the cost... the cost will be substantial, especially when out of tier. in this case our higher damage + mez +KB/KD will have to be bought in either typically End cost and/or Recharge time. a blaster doesn't really take much user endurance to fire, regardless the intensity maybe just a little for kick-back control. so it's more likely that in order to fire such a powerful shot the rifle needs a moderate to long time to recharge.

So lets compare recharge cost to balance this. other sets first ranged attack power is anywhere from 2 to 10 seconds recharge time. where Robotics pulse rifle is 4 seconds for moderate damage. it has no Mez nor KB. it's recharge is considered "Fast".

Alien Rifle will likely Have a recharge rating of Moderately Slow, it's definitely above 10 seconds. lets assume 4 seconds equals moderate damage alone. where 2 of that recharge is for minor damage and 2 for moderate. so another 2 or 4 for High Damage so 6 to 8 seconds. why not round up to 10?

next we need to consider the KB aspect. this would likely increase the End cost as the user would have to fight the gun's kickback witha greater intensity. a normal tier 1 rifle is fairly low end cost 6.5 end cost for robotics. where the later tier power with KB has close to an 11 end cost. we'll assume thats the case here but higher because it's all energy no smashing. so 12 to 15 end.

now we consider the Mez, this will likely effect both the end cost and recharge time, raising both. looking at Photon Grenade from robotics this is likely +5 to 8 end cost. we'll assume 10. so a total end cost of 20 to 25 end, this is a really high end cost.. now the recharge time, it's likely the Mez will add a large recharge time.  I'm guessing roughly another 8 seconds (2 seconds for each Mag of 4 Mag).

so you're talking about high damage every 18 seconds costing 20 to 25 end. thats slow and costly. sounds about right for what it is.


next let me reiterate Only Class up from modify alien is permanent till defeat. and limited to a small number of aliens equal to the amount of lieutenants other sets can get. It is Single Target. and the Buff (if class up is not possible) is temporary!. Other MMs can only provide the Buff. and only by single target. and though it stacks it's also time limited and limited to +1 stacking of the temporary buff per player.

in summary, you're looking at we'll say 3 conscripts/infantry, we could make rikti monkey a single summon at minion. drones and rularu could also be single minion summons to cut numbers. of which  2 can be raised to lieutenant?  and one all the way to Elite boss after Lv 26. and one minion Shivan upgradable separately to EB (because it's meant to be a boss summon but summoned at minion).

so upto 5 minions (not counting shivan (6)) - 2 to upgrade to Lieutenant - 1 to upgrade to boss or EB = 2 minion, 2 lieutenant, 2 Boss/EB max + 5 non-controllable Area of Summon minions.

it's a 2, 2, 2 deal after upgrade.

before upgrade it's  6, 0, 0.

if you count shivan as a boss because it's upgradeable separtely then it's 5,0,1

I hope this makes it clearer and more realistic.

if you look at it as I've just modified it, it's really not OP at all.

Edit; if we do it this way the monkies will need more HP than normal as they really can't get much stronger and are as described "fodder". maybe equivalent to fire imps, as in too easily defeated (which is why they give you 3 of them in fire control) maybe 2 minion rkiti monkies?.

The thought comes to consolidate Drones and Monkies into a "Summon Rikti Pets" multi summon, one drone, two monkies. this then opens it up for another ranged power. but I'm not certain these changes are best.

if this were the case we could do Rikti Pistol (Minor Damage)(Energy) + disorient as the first power, and Rikti Rifle (High Damage) as the second ranged power. this would solve a lot of your disputes. and they have their validity.

one note before you mention too many summons in the drone monkey summon, because other sets have 2 lieutenants there, and this has 3 minions, monkies even at lieutenant or boss are fodder. please do remember on CoX Live there used to be a rikti monkey Boss farm simply because of this fact that they were easy to kill bosses which didn't do much damage and granted tons of XP. the devs eventually nerfed the XP but did not raise the difficulty of rikti monkey lieutenants nor bosses. so thats why you get 2.

if we were to count 3 monkies as equivalent to one normal lieutenant, then the way I had it before is actually pretty not OP. 3 monkies in a second summon just for monkies. though there are 3 they are equivalent to 1 normal lieutenant. so counting them that way you get 3 Rikti minion, 1 lieutenant, + a rularu minion, and 1 Boss(shivan) before upgrade. this point really is debatable. but both arguments are now out there. I assume drones and monkies would be in one summon and the player will move the high damage rifle to later. The question is 1 drone and how many monkies? 1 drone and 2 monkies? one drone and 3 monkies in the summon?

I'll write up an alternate set preview in accordance with these changes. maybe after work today. or during the day tomorrow.

[Joshex]

the following is an edit as an alternate candidate for the set based on issues argued above:

Alien Pistol (Ranged, Energy, Minor Damage, Disorient)
Available Level 1

Enlist Rikti (Summon 1 to 3 Rikti Conscripts and or Infantry to fight for you)
Available Level 1

Alien Rifle (Ranged, Energy, High Damage, KD, Disorient)
Available Level 2

Modify Alien (this power lets you upgrade an existing alien, to a more powerful alien of that type if available. I.E. Conscript/Infantry > Guardian (no communications officer)> Headman OR Headman Gunman OR Cheif Mentalist(Lieut)> Chief [soldier, blaster, mezmerist] > Magus, or Rularuu watcher> observer> overseer i.e. Rikti Monkey > Wild Rikti Monkey > Vicious Rikti Monkey > N/A [Yet! = Rikti Gorilla (need graphics)], Drone > Improved Drone > Advanced Drone> Heavy Suit, Shivan> Shivan Smasher > Shivan Destroyer > Shivan Decimator. Otherwise it buffs the alien +HP +Perception +Accuracy +Damge)
L6 - L11 this power grants a Temporary buff to the alien it is cast upon.
L12 - L25 this power can upgrade an individual alien to a max of 2 minion aliens to lieutenant. and a temp buff to any alien thereafter.
L26 + this power can upgrade the shivan to EB, and or any individual alien to a max of one other alien to it's highest tier, and a max of 2 other aliens to lieutenant. and a temp buff thereafter.
Available level 6

Spoiler: ShowHide

If this power modifies an alien to another tier (conscript>guardian I.E.), the effect is permanent till defeat and/or resummon, if cast on an alien which has no next teir, I.E Vicious Rikti Monkey, Heavy Assault Suit(Drone), or Magus, overseer etc. (end tier) then it'll be a temporary buff as specified (+HP, Perception acc dam)

Summon Rikti Battle Support  (summon 1 Drone(minion) and upto 2 rikti monkies(minion) to aide you in battle)
Available Level 8

Summon Rularuu (Summon at random a Rularuu Watcher, Wisp, Natterling or Brute minion to aide you in combat)
Available Level 12

Spoiler: ShowHide

 the fact these are upgradable to a more powerful tier when using Modify alien makes up for the loss in "at summon" power.
This power summons 1 random rularuu, if you use it again, it unsummons your last rularuu and replaces it with another random rularuu. This could be changed to be a multi summon summoning 2 at random but we alreayd have the drone and rikti monkeys as a second multi summon and those are actually early and usually thats where an attack would be.

Invasion Portal (Defeatable, Field at location, for X minutes this power will summon a max of 5 combat type pets you have access to at random from this location. If 5 are summoned this way and any are defeated while time remains on this field's cast; it will summon random replacements. Pets summoned this way will continue to exist even after the field has expired (until dismissed or defeated).
Available Level 18 - Rikti Communications Officers have a similar power (to summon conscripts and infantry)

Spoiler: ShowHide

Does not interfere with other summons, if you have rikti, drone, rikti monkey, rularuu, or shivan summon powers, this power can summon up to 5 extras, for multi summon type pets it only summons 1 additional pet to a max of 5 extras). Does not subtract from temp power combat pet usages(or temp power pets are not summoned by this power). modify alien will still be able to be used on the spawns for a temporary buff, upgrade to a higher tier alien via Modify alien is only possible if a normal summon alien has been defeated. Otherwise, these summons will not follow MM pet commands nor leave the general area of the portal.

Summon Shivan (summon a Shivan (minion) to help you in battle)
Available Level 26

Alien Goo (Location AoE, Target: +Def, +Res, Full Heal, Clear effects,  Heal and temporarily buff all aliens or allies in the impact area by throwing a slimey substance on them)
Available Level 32

and that looks more in line with the arguments.

[BradleyIFV]

Alien Pistol (Ranged, Energy, Minor Damage, Disorient)
Available Level 1

Even though this is a Minor damage attack, the full Disorient is OP as a lvl 1 power - if it was a "chance for Disorient", maybe. Bumping the recharge up to balance the full effect would make the power less useful as a reasonable part of an attack chain. Also, to allow for customization (if that's something you're interested in), you can set the first power to a "low-power" shot and still have it come from the Rikti rifle.

Enlist Rikti (Summon 1 to 3 Rikti Conscripts and or Infantry to fight for you)
Available Level 1

Basic on its face

Alien Rifle (Ranged, Energy, High Damage, KD, Disorient)
Available Level 2

Like lvl 1 power and like my earlier comments, as a player power, it's OP to be High damage AND knockdown AND full Disorient, even with recharge balancing - take the Disorient down to "chance for" and it becomes more palatable.

Modify Alien (this power lets you upgrade an existing alien, to a more powerful alien of that type if available. I.E. Conscript/Infantry > Guardian (no communications officer)> Headman OR Headman Gunman OR Cheif Mentalist(Lieut)> Chief [soldier, blaster, mezmerist] > Magus, or Rularuu watcher> observer> overseer i.e. Rikti Monkey > Wild Rikti Monkey > Vicious Rikti Monkey > N/A [Yet! = Rikti Gorilla (need graphics)], Drone > Improved Drone > Advanced Drone> Heavy Suit, Shivan> Shivan Smasher > Shivan Destroyer > Shivan Decimator. Otherwise it buffs the alien +HP +Perception +Accuracy +Damge)
L6 - L11 this power grants a Temporary buff to the alien it is cast upon.
L12 - L25 this power can upgrade an individual alien to a max of 2 minion aliens to lieutenant. and a temp buff to any alien thereafter.
L26 + this power can upgrade the shivan to EB, and or any individual alien to a max of one other alien to it's highest tier, and a max of 2 other aliens to lieutenant. and a temp buff thereafter.
Available level 6

Spoiler: ShowHide

If this power modifies an alien to another tier (conscript>guardian I.E.), the effect is permanent till defeat and/or resummon, if cast on an alien which has no next teir, I.E Vicious Rikti Monkey, Heavy Assault Suit(Drone), or Magus, overseer etc. (end tier) then it'll be a temporary buff as specified (+HP, Perception acc dam)

There are still issues with this, comparative to standard MM powersets:

• It only perma-until-defeat (PUD) improves the pet if it can increase its tier to Lieutenant or above, while standard MM upgrades always give a PUD functional boost to even Minion-level pets.
• The casting only affects one pet at a time (but the buff can affect any of the MM's pets), while standard MM upgrades affect all of that MM's controllable pets within the AoE.
• You had a statement that the buff effect (vs. the tier upgrade) only lasts so long, such that even when Modify Aliens' Recharge is enhanced, you may only be able to have the buff in effect on 3 pets at a time. Normally an MM upgrade power has Medium recharge (4-10 seconds) - without any buffs, three full 10-second durations on the casting power would be no more than 30 seconds of effect. If the MM is having to enhance or otherwise buff recharge to get to three concurrent castings with a Medium recharge power, then the base effect would be shorter. Now if the power has a longer recharge, say Slow (10-60 seconds) and we'll go with the 60 second value, then a 100% buff to recharge knocks the cycle time to 40 seconds, or three in 2 minutes. Two minutes is equal to the duration of any of the individual-effect shields from Support sets (which affect ALL ALLIES in the AoE). If only three of your controllable pets get basically a shield, and nothing else beyond their stock-tier capabilities, they're going to be pretty weak. Even if the buff is strong enough to "balance" the lack of permanency, it still only effects three of the pets.
• If the recharge is set to Medium (full 10 seconds default), upgrading one pet at a time through the tiers would take 30 seconds for each Elite Boss (1 minute) and another 20 seconds for the two Lieutenants, so a little short of 1:20 for 8 castings. This compares to no more than about 10-12 seconds of casting time for two castings for a standard MM. God help you if the recharge on Modify Alien is Slow.
• I didn't see the thing from earlier where the power could affect other Alien Invasion MMs' pets - did you remove that? If you haven't, please explain why other AI MMs would want to just hand over their castings to this MM's pets rather than for their own.

Summon Rikti Battle Support  (summon 1 Drone(minion) and upto 2 rikti monkies(minion) to aide you in battle)
Available Level 8

Because your lvl 12 power only summons one Rularuu, at least one of these pets is intended to be controllable, in order to get to the 2/2/2 grouping you discussed earlier. The bases for these pets don't have actual Lieutenant, Boss, or Elite Boss versions (hell, the Monkeys don't even have Minion versions), so would they be able to be upgraded with Modify Alien or are they only buff-capable? You also don't specify what the multi-summon schedule is for these - and with these, you're already at either 4 minions and 2 underlings, or 6 minions. Having both minions and underlings summoned from the same power would be weird on its own.

Summon Rularuu (Summon at random a Rularuu Watcher, Wisp, Natterling or Brute minion to aide you in combat)
Available Level 12

Spoiler: ShowHide

 the fact these are upgradable to a more powerful tier when using Modify alien makes up for the loss in "at summon" power.
This power summons 1 random rularuu, if you use it again, it unsummons your last rularuu and replaces it with another random rularuu. This could be changed to be a multi summon summoning 2 at random but we alreayd have the drone and rikti monkeys as a second multi summon and those are actually early and usually thats where an attack would be.

This adds another minion, so now at either 5 minions and 2 underlings, or 7 minions in total.

Invasion Portal (Defeatable, Field at location, for X minutes this power will summon a max of 5 combat type pets you have access to at random from this location. If 5 are summoned this way and any are defeated while time remains on this field's cast; it will summon random replacements. Pets summoned this way will continue to exist even after the field has expired (until dismissed or defeated).
Available Level 18 - Rikti Communications Officers have a similar power (to summon conscripts and infantry)

Spoiler: ShowHide

Does not interfere with other summons, if you have rikti, drone, rikti monkey, rularuu, or shivan summon powers, this power can summon up to 5 extras, for multi summon type pets it only summons 1 additional pet to a max of 5 extras). Does not subtract from temp power combat pet usages(or temp power pets are not summoned by this power). modify alien will still be able to be used on the spawns for a temporary buff, upgrade to a higher tier alien via Modify alien is only possible if a normal summon alien has been defeated. Otherwise, these summons will not follow MM pet commands nor leave the general area of the portal.

This is still a nightmare of a power. At its most basic, it's a location power that auto-summons pets that are (initially) uncontrolled by the MM. It does this slowly (how slow? 10 seconds? more?) and can itself be defeated to stop the summoning. At this point not too problematic. But then we say that they can have their tier upgraded, assuming there is room among the 6 controlled and at the Lieutenant rank, making them a PUD controlled pet filling the gap from the earlier groups. The remaining uncontrolled pets summoned by the portal are also PUD, but stay at the summoning portal's location (or where it was when it was active). These pets can have Modify Alien cast on them just to buff them, but why would I waste that buff on pets that can't come with and don't follow the commands of my MM?

Summon Shivan (summon a Shivan (minion) to help you in battle)
Available Level 26

Finally at either 6 minions and 2 underlings, or 8 minions in total. Again, having to go through the upgrade process to get them to a Boss in the first place is baffling, never mind allowing them to reach EB status.

Alien Goo (Location AoE, Target: +Def, +Res, Full Heal, Clear effects,  Heal and temporarily buff all aliens or allies in the impact area by throwing a slimey substance on them)
Available Level 32

And we're back to this thing - is there any powerset power in the game that even just provides a single-casting to fully heal and fully clear all negative status effects ALL ALLIES within the AoE? And on top of that it provides both a +Def (I'm assuming either all vectors and/or all damage types) and a +Res (again, all damage types) effect - do the clear status effects also offer Clear Mind-like status protection for the however-long duration of the +Def/+Res buffs? What is the longest recharge on any power in a powerset in the game? Because this one is taking over that top spot, by a bunch, making it almost totally non-existent except in the most epic of fights. Never mind that no other MM primary powerset offers a power that heals, removes debuffs from, or buffs anything other than their own pets.

and that looks more in line with the arguments.

If your MM enters a mission with no pets and needs to get them ready for the first fight, it will take many minutes while everyone else is champing at the bit or leaving you behind. Losing any pets, especially LTs or Bosses/EBs, and trying to re-summon them in a fight would be slow-motion suicide. You did add a 2nd attack power, so your MM isn't totally just a taxi for their pets, but it doesn't matter because they're going to be spending all of their time spamming Modify Alien to keep not even half of their pets buffed. If Modify Alien actually lasts any decent length of time and has a similarly long recharge, your insistence on it being a single-target buff will multiply your prep time considerably. That you can have two Bosses and upgrade them to Elite Bosses is by itself massively OP, and having the player pay for it by sitting through interminable delays in getting their pets ready is not a good balance mechanism.

I'm going to leave it here - it's not even close to being a reasonable suggestion, and it's clear I'm not going to be able to convince you to make it any closer really.

[Joshex]

Spoiler: ShowHide

Alien Pistol (Ranged, Energy, Minor Damage, Disorient)
Available Level 1

Even though this is a Minor damage attack, the full Disorient is OP as a lvl 1 power - if it was a "chance for Disorient", maybe. Bumping the recharge up to balance the full effect would make the power less useful as a reasonable part of an attack chain. Also, to allow for customization (if that's something you're interested in), you can set the first power to a "low-power" shot and still have it come from the Rikti rifle.

Enlist Rikti (Summon 1 to 3 Rikti Conscripts and or Infantry to fight for you)
Available Level 1

Basic on its face

Alien Rifle (Ranged, Energy, High Damage, KD, Disorient)
Available Level 2

Like lvl 1 power and like my earlier comments, as a player power, it's OP to be High damage AND knockdown AND full Disorient, even with recharge balancing - take the Disorient down to "chance for" and it becomes more palatable.

Modify Alien (this power lets you upgrade an existing alien, to a more powerful alien of that type if available. I.E. Conscript/Infantry > Guardian (no communications officer)> Headman OR Headman Gunman OR Cheif Mentalist(Lieut)> Chief [soldier, blaster, mezmerist] > Magus, or Rularuu watcher> observer> overseer i.e. Rikti Monkey > Wild Rikti Monkey > Vicious Rikti Monkey > N/A [Yet! = Rikti Gorilla (need graphics)], Drone > Improved Drone > Advanced Drone> Heavy Suit, Shivan> Shivan Smasher > Shivan Destroyer > Shivan Decimator. Otherwise it buffs the alien +HP +Perception +Accuracy +Damge)
L6 - L11 this power grants a Temporary buff to the alien it is cast upon.
L12 - L25 this power can upgrade an individual alien to a max of 2 minion aliens to lieutenant. and a temp buff to any alien thereafter.
L26 + this power can upgrade the shivan to EB, and or any individual alien to a max of one other alien to it's highest tier, and a max of 2 other aliens to lieutenant. and a temp buff thereafter.
Available level 6
[spoiler]If this power modifies an alien to another tier (conscript>guardian I.E.), the effect is permanent till defeat and/or resummon, if cast on an alien which has no next teir, I.E Vicious Rikti Monkey, Heavy Assault Suit(Drone), or Magus, overseer etc. (end tier) then it'll be a temporary buff as specified (+HP, Perception acc dam)

[/quote]
There are still issues with this, comparative to standard MM powersets:

• It only perma-until-defeat (PUD) improves the pet if it can increase its tier to Lieutenant or above, while standard MM upgrades always give a PUD functional boost to even Minion-level pets.
• The casting only affects one pet at a time (but the buff can affect any of the MM's pets), while standard MM upgrades affect all of that MM's controllable pets within the AoE.
• You had a statement that the buff effect (vs. the tier upgrade) only lasts so long, such that even when Modify Aliens' Recharge is enhanced, you may only be able to have the buff in effect on 3 pets at a time. Normally an MM upgrade power has Medium recharge (4-10 seconds) - without any buffs, three full 10-second durations on the casting power would be no more than 30 seconds of effect. If the MM is having to enhance or otherwise buff recharge to get to three concurrent castings with a Medium recharge power, then the base effect would be shorter. Now if the power has a longer recharge, say Slow (10-60 seconds) and we'll go with the 60 second value, then a 100% buff to recharge knocks the cycle time to 40 seconds, or three in 2 minutes. Two minutes is equal to the duration of any of the individual-effect shields from Support sets (which affect ALL ALLIES in the AoE). If only three of your controllable pets get basically a shield, and nothing else beyond their stock-tier capabilities, they're going to be pretty weak. Even if the buff is strong enough to "balance" the lack of permanency, it still only effects three of the pets.
• If the recharge is set to Medium (full 10 seconds default), upgrading one pet at a time through the tiers would take 30 seconds for each Elite Boss (1 minute) and another 20 seconds for the two Lieutenants, so a little short of 1:20 for 8 castings. This compares to no more than about 10-12 seconds of casting time for two castings for a standard MM. God help you if the recharge on Modify Alien is Slow.
• I didn't see the thing from earlier where the power could affect other Alien Invasion MMs' pets - did you remove that? If you haven't, please explain why other AI MMs would want to just hand over their castings to this MM's pets rather than for their own.

Summon Rikti Battle Support  (summon 1 Drone(minion) and upto 2 rikti monkies(minion) to aide you in battle)
Available Level 8

Because your lvl 12 power only summons one Rularuu, at least one of these pets is intended to be controllable, in order to get to the 2/2/2 grouping you discussed earlier. The bases for these pets don't have actual Lieutenant, Boss, or Elite Boss versions (hell, the Monkeys don't even have Minion versions), so would they be able to be upgraded with Modify Alien or are they only buff-capable? You also don't specify what the multi-summon schedule is for these - and with these, you're already at either 4 minions and 2 underlings, or 6 minions. Having both minions and underlings summoned from the same power would be weird on its own.

Summon Rularuu (Summon at random a Rularuu Watcher, Wisp, Natterling or Brute minion to aide you in combat)
Available Level 12

Spoiler: ShowHide

 the fact these are upgradable to a more powerful tier when using Modify alien makes up for the loss in "at summon" power.
This power summons 1 random rularuu, if you use it again, it unsummons your last rularuu and replaces it with another random rularuu. This could be changed to be a multi summon summoning 2 at random but we alreayd have the drone and rikti monkeys as a second multi summon and those are actually early and usually thats where an attack would be.

This adds another minion, so now at either 5 minions and 2 underlings, or 7 minions in total.

Invasion Portal (Defeatable, Field at location, for X minutes this power will summon a max of 5 combat type pets you have access to at random from this location. If 5 are summoned this way and any are defeated while time remains on this field's cast; it will summon random replacements. Pets summoned this way will continue to exist even after the field has expired (until dismissed or defeated).
Available Level 18 - Rikti Communications Officers have a similar power (to summon conscripts and infantry)

Spoiler: ShowHide

Does not interfere with other summons, if you have rikti, drone, rikti monkey, rularuu, or shivan summon powers, this power can summon up to 5 extras, for multi summon type pets it only summons 1 additional pet to a max of 5 extras). Does not subtract from temp power combat pet usages(or temp power pets are not summoned by this power). modify alien will still be able to be used on the spawns for a temporary buff, upgrade to a higher tier alien via Modify alien is only possible if a normal summon alien has been defeated. Otherwise, these summons will not follow MM pet commands nor leave the general area of the portal.

This is still a nightmare of a power. At its most basic, it's a location power that auto-summons pets that are (initially) uncontrolled by the MM. It does this slowly (how slow? 10 seconds? more?) and can itself be defeated to stop the summoning. At this point not too problematic. But then we say that they can have their tier upgraded, assuming there is room among the 6 controlled and at the Lieutenant rank, making them a PUD controlled pet filling the gap from the earlier groups. The remaining uncontrolled pets summoned by the portal are also PUD, but stay at the summoning portal's location (or where it was when it was active). These pets can have Modify Alien cast on them just to buff them, but why would I waste that buff on pets that can't come with and don't follow the commands of my MM?

Summon Shivan (summon a Shivan (minion) to help you in battle)
Available Level 26

Finally at either 6 minions and 2 underlings, or 8 minions in total. Again, having to go through the upgrade process to get them to a Boss in the first place is baffling, never mind allowing them to reach EB status.

Alien Goo (Location AoE, Target: +Def, +Res, Full Heal, Clear effects,  Heal and temporarily buff all aliens or allies in the impact area by throwing a slimey substance on them)
Available Level 32

And we're back to this thing - is there any powerset power in the game that even just provides a single-casting to fully heal and fully clear all negative status effects ALL ALLIES within the AoE? And on top of that it provides both a +Def (I'm assuming either all vectors and/or all damage types) and a +Res (again, all damage types) effect - do the clear status effects also offer Clear Mind-like status protection for the however-long duration of the +Def/+Res buffs? What is the longest recharge on any power in a powerset in the game? Because this one is taking over that top spot, by a bunch, making it almost totally non-existent except in the most epic of fights. Never mind that no other MM primary powerset offers a power that heals, removes debuffs from, or buffs anything other than their own pets.

and that looks more in line with the arguments.

If your MM enters a mission with no pets and needs to get them ready for the first fight, it will take many minutes while everyone else is champing at the bit or leaving you behind. Losing any pets, especially LTs or Bosses/EBs, and trying to re-summon them in a fight would be slow-motion suicide. You did add a 2nd attack power, so your MM isn't totally just a taxi for their pets, but it doesn't matter because they're going to be spending all of their time spamming Modify Alien to keep not even half of their pets buffed. If Modify Alien actually lasts any decent length of time and has a similarly long recharge, your insistence on it being a single-target buff will multiply your prep time considerably. That you can have two Bosses and upgrade them to Elite Bosses is by itself massively OP, and having the player pay for it by sitting through interminable delays in getting their pets ready is not a good balance mechanism.

I'm going to leave it here - it's not even close to being a reasonable suggestion, and it's clear I'm not going to be able to convince you to make it any closer really.
[/quote][/spoiler]

no you're finally being understood. I can now see the points you're making. I'll get around to a third revision. and post it here. again this was just a suggestion for the devs to balance. but balancing it with commentary is actually helpful, so.. I will edit this post with direct responses to your comments and then follow it with the third revision in the same post.  for example when I put "disorient" I was just copying it from the wiki, of course player powers are different from critter powers so naturally this would be a "chance for" as you stated.

do remember each MM set has it's own playstyle, there are similarities but different play focuses. as the goal here was to include nearly all in game aliens (save dillo's bunch, grym's bunch, the council's bunch and nictus) summonning from the lowest state seemed reasonable allowing the player to pick which aliens should be minions, lieutenants, bosses and elite bosses (if possible). yes it take more time to set-up, but on a team you can summon as you go. team stops at first mob, summon, no time for the second summon? summon it at the second mob. etc. in a pinch because all your pets ded and the recharge is not finished on summon powers? = invasion portal modify alien. we'll modify alien goo a bit too. I see what you're saying.

yeah, your points on modify alien are understood.
1: yes most MM sets have an AoE PUD for all summons, but it comes later in the set (L32) and is only a single cast situation (it does not stack). this is a consideration. Making players wait longer to upgrade tiers permanently would be more in-line with other sets, where the L6 power is typically temporary and single target. the difference here is all the summons are a different type, in other sets each new summon is just an increased tier summon of the starter summon.

2: covered in 1, it's something to consider.

3: I made this weak on purpose, the idea was to balance the fact that some things in the set can become more powerful than normal. so the buff should be less viable. also it was based on my experience with the buff in beast mastery, I found that applying it to pets is slow, recharge time + cast time is over 7.6 seconds each (23.01 seconds+ for 3 casts counting the recharge from the first), and it seemed to wear off kinda fast to the point that I'd have to reapply it mid fight, and definitely before a new group. if it lasts half a minute (30) seconds, that means I Could maybe use it on 5 pets (Max) and have 0.99 seconds to attack before it falls off the first pet. basically as soon as you cast #5, #1 will fall.. so my rough estimate was 1 short. 4 max. where as enhanced -100%% rech you're talking 8 casts max? this was always an estimate of recharge time rather than a hard max number of targets.

if we make this set too close to a typical MM set it'll either drop alien summons, limit tiers to boss (no shivan decimator for you, that's EB (same as the temp power you can get in bloody bay)), otherwise the set will be too OP. so.. I can see how you are trying to conform this set to whats expected of an MM set traditionally. maybe the devs will? but in doing so you'll make it either too OP (which is probably why you keep saying it is OP, though there were trades, like you mention having to raise everything from minion is a flaw, a major weakness, balanced only by the fact you can raise 2 to EB. (This is the point in response to #4))

this was the basis of making the buff powers different (and in this case weaker).

Still, I'll attempt to equate it and alien goo in this revision. but I expect it'll make the set too OP.

4: answered in 3

5: It should still be included, only for the temp buff, it's a strategy; take a really mean alien such as a Shivan Decimator,  Heavy Assualt Suit, or Magus etc., add +HP, +Accuracy(lets change this to +ToHit as it's more in-line with most powers), +Damage makes it even more powerful.

however lets say +ToHit is +10%, and +Damage is +20%, thats good and all, but a team of AI MMs could stack this on said "mean alien", +10% TH * caster(8 ) = +80%TH (with Max ToHitBuff enhancement(100%%) +160% MAX), +20% Damage * 8 = 160%, now you have a single alien that can pretty much bulldoze through almost anything even fight through AV regen add the +HP*8 and you can see how this tactic of turning a single alien into an alien monster is a distinct strategy. That's why they'd want to. but remember, at no enhancement you can keep 3 to 4 buffed almost permanently so you're talking a full team of AIMMs ("AIM" lol.) buffing 3 or 4 alien monstrosities.


For Rikti Battle Support, yeah the monkies basically don't get to class up. I mean there's "wild" and "vicious", but they have the same attacks. there is no such thing as a rikti Gorilla (maybe a rikti geurrilla, but that's an occupation - joke), so the drone is the only summon able to be up-tiered, the monkies stay underlings. This power is a bit strange, but then again we are talking about aliens here. You'd imagine they'd be a bit StrAyyynge. putting them together made room for another ranged power and lessened the summon overkill. the monkies are as described "Fodder" that comes out with the summon of 1 useful thing. we could make it that only the drone is controllable, and the monkies just follow the drone. (I don't know why, maybe we stuck a ripe banana inside it. "must protect the banana carrier!")

lets count the monkies separate. they'll be considered supplementary to the drone summon and not counted as a true minion nor summon. if the drone is defeated, maybe the monkies run? or just stop following you and your orders. Monkies - underling - non-controllable (follow's commands given to the drone while active)

this takes us to 4 minion

then we have rularuu

again, you are attempting to equate AI MMs to other MM sets. to make it fit a template. however here we get more summons (which would make it OP if you attempt to equate it), and it's likely people wouldn't like that their only boss is a shivan and their only lieutenants are a drone and a rularuu. they'll complain that rikti lieuts and Bosses would be better but then it'd just be a "rikti summoning MM set" rather than "alien" in general and even then would you place the drones or monkies as the first multi summon? and rikti later?.

It is clear to me that "Ayyy" demands a different template. we could make the first multi summon a random "Summon Rikti" then the lieutenants would be "Summon Rularuu" and the boss "Summon Shivan", where summon rikti would have a chance to get 3 conscript, or 3 infantry, or 3 drones, or 4 to 6 monkies (you got monkied around), or a mix of these. and summon rularuu could be any 2 random rularuu. it seems forced. now if they were all minions and you got to chose which became bosses etc. then. yeah better. oh wait now we're back to being "StrAyyynge"

Modify Alien or the ability to single target class-up a specific alien beyond a single time in some cases, is very different from any other MM set! as such it cannot be equated and given the same general powers as a normal MM set, if it were it'd be OP.

still to humor you I'll attempt to make this more like a traditional MM set. as much as possible without changing the core of Modify Alien and invasion portal. again, it's not OP so long as you don't make this a typical MM set template.

Invasion Portal: if you are asking questions about how it works, you've never fought rikti. it's slow around 10 seconds a summon and has a max number of summons at one time. Yes the portal can be defeated. Alternatively it has a time limit as well. Summons initiated by it teleport out when you resummon the portal and will then need to be resummoned slowly. I still don't get why you are arguing about the summons being uncontrollable but possibly controllable later if a normal summon of their type is defeated. it cannot raise the number of controllable aliens Ever. in example if a rikti conscript from the L1 summon dies, and the portal spawns rularuu and drones and monkies and a shivan but the random number generator just never lands on conscript nor infantry to upgrade in order to fill the ranks? then tough luck; gotta resummon your normal L1 summon.

What we could do, is to avoid a major weakness of the normal summon desummoning max tiered up aliens from a summon, I.E. lets say you have a Magus and a Chief Mentalist (Lieutenant) and a Headman, then the headman dies. next time you "Enlist Rikti" you'll keep the Magus and Mentalist and either a single conscript or infantry will be summoned. just filling the ranks. where as if no tier upgrades had been done, then all 3 would resummon as normal.

Last I'll be modifying alien Goo, maybe a full heal was a bit too much. maybe "clears all effects" is overpowered too. I was thinking "MoG for Pets" for the L32 power Ayyy style. remember other sets achieve this by doing a "Upgrades All Pets permanently", where as this set has that power on modify alien! so it's not here at all! just a buff. it's a trade. you know what, I had an interesting idea just now, why not make this power upgrade The Target Only to a new tier, whilst buffing all other aliens? maybe it upgrades the target to Boss automatically skipping lower tiers? this would solve some of the issues!





Well lets see what it comes to third revision for consideration:



Alien Pistol (Ranged, Energy, Minor Damage, Chance for Disorient)
Available Level 1

Enlist Rikti (Summon 1 to 3 Rikti Conscripts and or Infantry to fight for you)
Available Level 1

Alien Rifle (Ranged, Energy, High Damage, KD, Chance for Disorient)
Available Level 2

Modify Alien (this power lets you upgrade an existing alien, to a more powerful alien of that type if available. I.E. Conscript/Infantry > Guardian (no communications officer)> Headman OR Headman Gunman OR Cheif Mentalist(Lieut)> Chief [soldier, blaster, mezmerist] > Magus, or Rularuu watcher> observer> overseer i.e. Rikti Monkey >! N/A [Yet! = Rikti Gorilla (need graphics)], Drone > Improved Drone > Advanced Drone> Heavy Suit, Shivan> Shivan Smasher > Shivan Destroyer > Shivan Decimator. Otherwise it buffs the alien +HP +Perception +Accuracy +Damge)
L6 - L11 this power grants a Temporary buff to the alien it is cast upon.
L12 - L25 this power can upgrade an individual alien to a max of 2 minion aliens to lieutenant. and a temp buff to any alien thereafter.
L26 + this power can upgrade the shivan to EB, and or any individual alien to a max of one other alien to it's highest tier, and a max of 2 other aliens to lieutenant. and a temp buff thereafter.
Available level 6

Spoiler: ShowHide

If this power modifies an alien to another tier (conscript>guardian I.E.), the effect is permanent till defeat and/or resummon, if cast on an alien which has no next teir, I.E Vicious Rikti Monkey, Heavy Assault Suit(Drone), or Magus, overseer etc. (end tier) then it'll be a temporary buff as specified (+HP, Perception acc dam)

Summon Rikti Battle Support  (summon 1 Drone(minion) and upto 2 rikti monkies(Underling, Follows commands to drone if the drone is not defeated) to aide you in battle)
Available Level 8

Summon Rularuu (Summon at random a Rularuu Watcher, Wisp, Natterling or Brute minion to aide you in combat)
Available Level 12

Spoiler: ShowHide

 the fact these are upgradable to a more powerful tier when using Modify alien makes up for the loss in "at summon" power.
This power summons 1 random rularuu, if you use it again, it unsummons your last rularuu and replaces it with another random rularuu. This could be changed to be a multi summon summoning 2 at random but we alreayd have the drone and rikti monkeys as a second multi summon and those are actually early and usually thats where an attack would be.

Invasion Portal (Defeatable, Field at location, for X minutes this power will summon a max of 5 combat type pets you have access to at random from this location. If 5 are summoned this way and any are defeated while time remains on this field's cast; it will summon random replacements. Pets summoned this way will continue to exist even after the field has expired (until dismissed or defeated).
Available Level 18 - Rikti Communications Officers have a similar power (to summon conscripts and infantry)

Spoiler: ShowHide

Does not interfere with other summons, if you have rikti, drone, rikti monkey, rularuu, or shivan summon powers, this power can summon up to 5 extras, (for multi summon type pets it only summons 1 additional pet to a max of 5 extras). Does not subtract from temp power combat pet usages(or temp power pets are not summoned by this power). Pets summoned this way do not respond to Pet Commands, modify alien will still be able to be used on the spawns for a temporary buff, upgrade to a higher tier alien via Modify alien is only possible if a normal summon alien of the same type has been defeated. Otherwise, these summons will not follow MM pet commands nor leave the general area of the portal.
As such higher perception (modify alien) may be necessary if you summon the portal too far away from an enemy group.

Summon Shivan (summon a Shivan (minion) to help you in battle)
Available Level 26

Alien Goo (Ranged, Target: To Boss. (Location AoE, Target(TAoE): +Def, +Res, Moderate Heal, +perception-range, Status Protection Mag 5 (current debuffs may be cleared if they are lower magnitude, stacks with other pet status protection), Automatically permanently upgrade the main target to Boss (If you do not already have a boss, otherwise if it is already a boss it upgrades the main target Elite Boss, if you already have an Elite Boss and the target is a minion instead it upgrades to lieutenant if possible, otherwise Temp Buff),  Heal and temporarily buff all aliens in the impact area by throwing a slimey substance on them).
Available Level 32

[Joshex]

I've had time to think about this. Some changes will be necessary on at least 2 points which may change the entire makeup of my proposal for this set.

1: invasion portal in game at current summons conscripts, monkies, and drones. Originally I had it so that it summond random minion aliens you have access to. And specified you could upgrade those aliens, and specified I think 5 minutes of uptime for the portal. First I think we should cut the time down to 2.5 or 3 minutes, Second you can't upgrade aliens summoned this way, but they will follow, and get desummoned when leaving maps, third We'll keep some max number of summons through the portal, 5 is good, naturally if defeated the portal will summon more.

2: I've been thinking about how to get all the aliens in game into this set. I think invasion portal should summon random aliens from the entire game not just ones you have summons for. so you could get a: nictus, kheldian, whatever Dillo is, shivans, rikti, or shadow shard critters.

This really would open up the summons, now we wouldn't have to have 1 Summon Power for each alien type.

3: dealing with EB summons, instead of being at level, they could be Lv - 2 Elite Bosses, thus having all the abilities and survival of an EB, but 2 levels lower than the player to make it a bit more fair.

these ae some thoughts I will modify in to the main post later today, not sure what alien summons will be replaced. might do all the rikti in 1 summon like I thought of before.

Updates made to leading post, it is now Template-fitting to other MM primary sets!!!