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#21

Player Help/Guides / Re: Main Tanking vs Lethal For...

Last post by fizzit11 - Jan 07, 2025, 06:30 PM

I just started tanking UG, and I did see my [Invul] tank suddenly die to one of the WW's (luckily Just as the WW also died...), but I'm not sure why; I should have checked the combat log. Having said that, Mids shows my build to have 2148 max HP and 86.43 Energy resist. Does it make sense that LFA would one shot me (so to speak)?

[Lethal Force Authorized]

#22

Player Help/Guides / Re: Main Tanking vs Lethal For...

Last post by Redlynne - Jan 07, 2025, 02:47 PM

Apparently, I was wrong with my computations.

Actually, even more wrong than THAT.

What I've been able to determine via experimental means (via faceplanting when I was sure I wouldn't by a decent margin) is that Lethal Force Authorized is even more MEAN than I'd thought it could be.

Generically speaking ...



{Updated} Surviving a War Walker's Lethal Force Authorized as a Main Tank theory crafting:

Tanker AT Max Health = 3534
3534 * 0.3 = 1060.2

My understanding is that War Walkers calculate as Level 56 Foes, making them +3 vs Incarnate 50(+3). Due to Purple Patch modifiers, this increases the amount of damage delivered per DoT tick by +33% @ +3.
1060.2 * 1.33 = 1410.066 Energy damage per tick, 5x over 4s dealt to Tankers



For anyone keeping score at home:

1410.066 * 5 / 3534 = 1.995

In other words, the raw base damage output of Lethal Force Authorized is 199.5% of ANY ARCHETYPE'S Max Health dealt over 4 seconds, when you normalize the yield. It really is Lethal Force Authorized ... because it is deliberately scaled to do 2x Max Health to everyone it hits (and the way it hits bypasses Defense protection, so Defense can't and won't save you).

Additionally, the quantity of damage being delivered is so high that I don't even think the Regeneration powerset can natively withstand getting hit by Lethal Force Authorized. You would basically need to have enough Regeneration to reach 5% of Max Health per second(!), which starts getting into the +1100% Regeneration (and higher) realm, while ALSO being as close to the Max Health cap for your Archetype as you can get. And as is always the case with Regeneration as a protection scheme ... More Is Better™ ... when it comes time to calculate the odds of survival, especially if you're taking more hits from additional Foes than JUST the Lethal Force Authorized damage input.



So if you need to withstand 199.5% of the Max Health for your Archetype in order to survive being hit by Lethal Force Authorized ... what are your options?

• Get as close to Max Health as is practical for your build strategy
• Maximize your Energy Resistance as much as practical for your build strategy
• Include a +Absorb(self) power, and/or reliable +Absorb proc(s), in your build strategy
• Scrape together as much +Regeneration as is practical for your build strategy
• Use Inspirations (Resistance prior to being hit, Heal once the damage starts biting into you)

Building for Max Health "makes sense" given the context, but what about Energy Resistance? How much Energy Resistance "is enough" for you to survive being hit by Lethal Force Authorized?

And it's at this point that the Purple Patch modifiers start to bite again in the other direction. Against something that is +3 to you, your Resistances normalize as being 0.65x their effectiveness against incoming attacks from +3 Foes.

This means that an 80% Energy Resistance against +0 Foes will "normalize" as being (effectively) a 52% Energy Resistance against a +3 War Walker hitting you with Lethal Force Authorized.

80 * 0.65 = 52

And again, for anyone playing along with the home game, that's barely enough (by itself) to survive being hit by Lethal Force Authorized (assuming you're "undamaged" when the LFA damage starts).

199.5% of Max Health * (1-0.52) = 95.76% of Max Health for your Archetype



There are additional mitigating factors that you can count in your favor, such as 1/20th of Max Health Regeneration ticks (however quickly those happen). At between +500% and +800% Regeneration (total), you'll be receiving Regeneration ticks every 2.0-1.3 seconds, which is good enough for 2-3 Regeneration ticks during the 4s duration of Lethal Force Authorized incoming DoT ticks. Assuming 2 Regeneration ticks, for +500% (or more) Regeneration (total), is the equivalent to having +10% additional Max Health on top of your existing (actual) Max Health.

+Absorb shielding, particularly that applied via quick (0.5 second) activation toggle powers is especially valuable, because such +Absorb shielding can "take the edge off" each of the 5x Energy damage ticks of Lethal Force Authorized, which can then be "traded" for lower Energy Resistance and/or reduced pressure on Max Health (up to a point). Slower +Absorb powers, such as Sorcery: Spirit Ward and Gadgetry: Force Barrier can certainly help in adding to the "margin of survival" ... as well as +Absorb procs (Tanker Gauntleted Fist ATO and Hold Entomb, for example) can also be beneficial.

Point is that you're going to need a confluence of "high" Health (closer to Max for your AT is better), "high" Energy Resistance, "plentiful" Absorb and/or "high" Regeneration factors in order to be able to successfully take the brunt of a Lethal Force Authorized hit, as a Main Tank, and survive.



Unfortunately, as Kismet has pointed out (and I've been able to experimentally confirm), it's possible for 2 Taunters to be close enough to each other (within 30ft) such that when Lethal Force Authorized gets used, it hits them both ... and because they're close enough to each other, the 30ft radius of AoE surrounding each Taunter overlaps, meaning that both Taunters get a DOUBLE DOSE of Lethal Force Authorized when it's used.

So now instead of trying to withstand 199.5% of your AT's Max Health in (raw) Energy damage over 4 seconds ... now you need to be able to withstand a double dose ... so try to survive being hit for 399% of your AT's Max Health (good luck!).



In a LOT of ways, the best "protection" (scheme) against Lethal Force Authorized is to have high Energy Resistance (80%+). If you can't obtain Energy Resistances that high, you're going to need to invest in +Absorb powers and/or procs, along with +Max Health options (many of which will include +Regeneration when looking at invention set bonuses).

There are multiple ways to "balance the equation" of survival (in your favor) against Lethal Force Authorized, so this isn't a challenge/hurdle that has ONE AND ONLY ONE solution to it. However, depending on the details of your build strategy and choices of powersets, it may become something of a "close run thing" with little margin for error or additional incoming damage from other sources concurrently when being hit by Lethal Force Authorized.



Ranged attackers SHOULD NOT have to worry about Lethal Force Authorized, as a matter of practicality.

So long as ranged attackers stay more than 30ft+ distant from the aggro magnet, ranged attackers will not need to worry about being Targeted or being hit by any special attacks from War Walkers.

Ideally speaking, only melee attackers should be "at risk" of being within 30ft of the aggro magnet (because, melee range attacks), and if you DO get Targeted (check your buff bar!), the simplest way to survive without getting hit by Lethal Force Authorized is to simply make a temporary retreat (in many cases, 10-15ft will often times suffice). Melee are only vulnerable if they get too close to (being within 30ft of) the aggro magnet.

#23

Off-topic / Re: Joshexs Dreamtime

Last post by Joshex - Jan 07, 2025, 01:48 PM

I had another Very long dream which forced me to get up early. well, early for me. I did sleep for like 10 hours this time. but that's a small amount of rest time for me, I usually prefer 12 hours.

I was in this particular dream for 2 full days. I woke up once in the middle for some short period of time then faded back to sleep. at least unless I was dreaming of having woken up.

I can't recount the whole dream in detail, it was just too long to remember all of it. I mean I could make some basic keyframes of it but details of things people said might be sketchy.

I started off in an outdoor place there were a few small buildings, (peoples homes, shops) lining a couple paths paralell to eachother, at the end of the plath was a cliff, next to the cliff on the left side was a small building and a pond to the left of it. behind that building was a kinda dust/sand cyclone, but it wasn't conical, it had taken the shape of a twirling and deforming set of stairs which connected at the top to the top of the cliff.

in the small building I sat down and asked about it, and a lady told me that many had tried to climb it but only the pure of heart (and some other conditions) could, and that otherwise you get stuck in the middle, she advised me that there were actual solid stairs to get up to the top of the cliff, and that it's better to take those rather than chance it, the sand stairs were only for people who wanted to test their character. I followed her advice and took the normal stairs.

at the top was a large building, a sort of shopping mall with a supermarket at the bottom in one section of it, it was a massive building. I spent some time walking around the shopping mall, I was accompanied by people who knew me, but I didn't quite know them. they had me follow them around for a full day, from store to store dressing room to dressing room, then the day was ending and they took me down to the supermarket to grab some snacks, there were a lot of empty shelves near the escalator., but further in there was full shelves, again, we ended up grabbing containers of cake slices, but I thought the price was strangely high, 9.63, but I was told that was cheap, they said it was like roughly equivalent to $1. I followed them to the counter to go pay for it, but before I could approach the counter I had my first wake up, and went straight back to sleep. I picked up on the same dream, but after the cake part, we were all paid and they were checking out a few things, so I was waiting by the window next to the doors that lead outside (though this exit was in a different direction than the original entrance I took).

outside the window was what looked like a pond, but it was not water, it was a small caldera near an ocean or large lake, it was almost at water level, apparently it never really errupted and never would, it was just a lava pool, perhaps a far flung offshoot of the main lava tube. the sea water would occassionally splash into it and cause the surface lava to splatter and pop, I was told this spot was the favourite spot of a fictional character that will remain nameless, I have not watched that series in many years and honestly don't care much for it. anyways we went out the doors toward the caldera, and there was a concrete path that followed the building, there was a thick divider wall between the caldera on the path, it had cement posts and metal panels  there was also a thick glass roof over the path that was closest to the caldera. but you could still see over the wall as you walk by. naturally a few drops of something hit the caldera and the was a small pop on it's surface and a small amount of small fragments of hot pummice spattered everywhere a few times.

now the pummice peices were only like 0.25 inch or smaller but they wre very hot, one got on the toe section of my right shoe, it went straight through to top and I felt a hot searing burn on the top of my foot at the base of my toes, I had to take the shoe off and shake the peice out. other pummice peices had hit my arm and back, but they just bounced off after a slight burn and impact.

we followed the path around the building, [unknown, can't remember, I think we walked home through a park path], it was now the next day, and we went back to the mall again, more shopping. I hadn't really been buying much, I'm not a shopper, I was there as the support team "what do you think of this one?" "oh, it's ok" kinda thing, you know, the role the guy plays when he girlfriend takes him to clothing stores for herself.

the main central part of the mall was circular, and multi level, at least 10 floors, you could see down to the bottom in the middle, it was a wide circle with shops surrounding. each floor had 2 hallways opposite eachother leading to other sections of the mall, as if 10 floors wasn't enough. after the shopping was done for that day, we were about to leave, when one of the girls suddenly realized "oh we forgot to eat something" so she took us back in and we went up several flights of strairs, the strairway was a hallway of stairs, it came to landings on each floor and some parts had windows, it was a beautiful view. anyways we were on an upper floor of the central circle section of the malle, it was all restaurants, I was getting my hopes up. but the prices were kinda steep as I looked over various menu boards. besides that it was the end of the day and they were closing soon. so we left the mall, and went into town, and stopped at a restaurant. but it too was kinda steep priced for what it was. I ended up having one large shrimp and a small peice of tofu we were eating a hotpot., but after eating 2 things, I had been taking it slow because I noticed it was just boiling water, there was no spice nor sauce , I mean yeah we had a little bowl of sauce to dip in after boiling, but I'm used to the hotpot itself having a sauce. eventually I asked "um, when are they going to put the sauce in the hotpot?" and they said "the sauce is in your bowl, the hotpot is already flavoured. and yeah it did have some flavour, it looked like it was just water but I could taste it had something sweet in it, probably mirin. anyways the ladies were full as they had not been taking it slow like me, so they got up and told me to finish up and join them outside.

there wasn't much food left, I had a couple small peices of whatever was left various things, but it wasn't much. there was a small squid cap, and when I boiled it a plastic thing with some writing on it was inside and the hotpot owner noticed it immediately "oh, you're the lucky winner of a beef bowl" and I was quite happy to hear that as honestly in the past 2 days of the dream I hadn't eaten much and was getting kinda hungry., but the free beef bowl, while tastey, was small. it had a small but thick and chewey shitake and a couple peices of beef in broth, it was good, but it wasn't much. my company had already paid, so after I finished Ib walked out to meet them, but man was the hunger growing, because you know how when you're really hungry and you eat some small peice of something and it just makes you feel more hungry? yeah that happenned.

needless to say they were just standing around talking outside the door of the place admiring the scenery, and yeah it was nice. then there was this roll of white cloth that dropped down from the sky in front of me, I joked "oh look toilet paper", but I knew it wasn't, they knew what it was and remarked about it [can't remember exactly what they remarked, but it was a pleasant thing], I grabbed ahold of it gently to feel the texture, it definitely was not toilet paper, it was like embroidered silk, it had a pattern on it. but the hunger started to kick into high gear and before long I woke up.

this is a summary of the events, it does not tell the whole story but the basic key points in it.

when I woke up I tred to go back to sleep as it was 11am and I had stayed up til 1am and didn't plan on getting up before noon. but the hunger wouldn't quit. and this is strange because the day before I went to sleep I ate really well. and even stranger, for the past months I had not experienced any significant hunger. It was like I had barely eaten in several days, I had to get up and have cereal.. I never have cereal. even after one bowl of cereal, I'm still kinda hungry. this just set in suddenly.. not sure why.. but yeah my body wouldn't let me sleep. normally if I'm a little hungry I can just relax myself to sleep, but this was overbearingly hungry like I'd been starving for days "you need to eat or you are going to go into shock and shut down" was the message my body would relay when I tried to relax, ignore it and get back to sleep.

and again, it's strange because I'd been eating well lately. the only thing I can think of is the length of the dream.. I mean it is tuesday, I went to sleep at 1am tuesday, it's the 7th and I was here for the 6th, it's the right month and year.. I just can't imagine getting that critically hungry in 10 hours.. this is perplexing. I mean yeah, in the dream I was aware I had been there quite a while, I honestly became slightly worried about it due to the length of the dream. I honestly thought I'd been in a coma IRL and living in the dream world for like 2 days at least. but it was only 10 hours.

as I said I usually sleep for 12. so this is indeed strange... I might need a second breakfast.. "breakfast" lol, I got up after 11, it's almost 2 now, ok lunch then..

[Resistance to Mez works]

#24

General Suggestions and Feedback / Re: Idea: Gravity Armor & Grav...

Last post by Joshex - Jan 07, 2025, 12:28 AM

I was thinking of a power called "Heavy Mass", initially it was slated to be (+resistance to: Knockback, Hold, Immobilize, Attract, Repel, Teleport, -speed(fly, run, jump), res debuff(speed, recovery, regen, defense)) but no mez resist!

Since this is intended to be a melee (Tanker) set of powers, I can tell you right now ... if you design a melee powerset with NO Mag Protection in it, no one will play it.

Even with Max Resistance to Mez, the way that Resistance to Mez works is like endurance reduction or recharge reduction.

Base Duration / (1 + Mez Resistance/100) = Mez Duration in gameplay

So a 100% Mez Resistance merely cuts the duration by 1/2 ... it does not cut the duration to zero.
In order to be protected from Mez, you need to have a power that offers -Mag to Mez in its effects.

I'm with you on most of it until we hit the -regen on it.

Spacetime curvature yields time dilation was the idea.
Also, you can't have a direct port of another power in the game (except for a cosmetic name change) without "cheapening" both the original AND the knock-off power. Ideally you want each powerset to have its own "unique spin" on powers, to prevent powersets from becoming interchangeable.

I love the Gravity Whip idea

one thing though:

'If the Foe is "too close" (under 10ft) then it does major damage and a big Knockback (think Force Field: Repulsion Bolt of mag 11+ type knockback).'


not sure if want. as a tank the last thing you want is to knock targets out of melee range

Under most nominal circumstances, no.
This is the basic reason why I have no love for Crane Kick in the Martial Arts powerset, for example. It does significant knockback (randomly), which is counterproductive in a melee range context.

However, on a powerset that can "pull AND push" things get a bit different. If you organize the powers in such a way as to effectively use knock(about) as something of a soft control, things can get interesting.

An alternative to a knockBACK would be to do a knockUP instead, if the $Target(s) are "too close" ... creating a sort of "astrophyical jet out the pole(s)" type of appearance (a bit like Whirlwind, in that respect).

ok, so I had a bad understanding of Mez and the importance of mez protection or -mez. I had included a minor mez res on white hole, but 10/100 = 0.1 so it would have been 1/1.1 duration or nearly the entire duration lol. so perhaps this is where the -Mez magnitude should be inserted. looking at other sets mez protection and res, it's around 10000 res or 1/101 duration, the -Mag 10 to -Mag 12.98, that's hefty.

L18: Click: Whitehole, (Self Rez, Untouchable 30 seconds, with 50% HP, 25% End), Auto: PBAoE Self+Team(+recovery(30%) -rech(15%) +regeneration(50%), -Mez Mag 10(not sure if to all, orwhat specifics yet), mez res 10000%)

what I set-up here might be overpowered, essentially it's a weak self rez, but owning it grants you an Auto ability that's always on. some other self rez powers have this too, for example Willpower's Resurgence in mids used to have a mysterious attribute "Enhanced" which was essentially a bool where if you enhanced the power at all, it granted you an extra to-hit and damage buff set to Auto, meaning it's active even when you have not used the power. so here the same thing, if this self rez is enhanced it generates a team buff for recovery rech and regen + some mag protection and resist. these numbers may be too high though.

[Resistance to Mez works]

#25

General Suggestions and Feedback / Re: Idea: Gravity Armor & Grav...

Last post by Redlynne - Jan 06, 2025, 11:34 PM

I was thinking of a power called "Heavy Mass", initially it was slated to be (+resistance to: Knockback, Hold, Immobilize, Attract, Repel, Teleport, -speed(fly, run, jump), res debuff(speed, recovery, regen, defense)) but no mez resist!

Since this is intended to be a melee (Tanker) set of powers, I can tell you right now ... if you design a melee powerset with NO Mag Protection in it, no one will play it.

Even with Max Resistance to Mez, the way that Resistance to Mez works is like endurance reduction or recharge reduction.

Base Duration / (1 + Mez Resistance/100) = Mez Duration in gameplay

So a 100% Mez Resistance merely cuts the duration by 1/2 ... it does not cut the duration to zero.
In order to be protected from Mez, you need to have a power that offers -Mag to Mez in its effects.

I'm with you on most of it until we hit the -regen on it.

Spacetime curvature yields time dilation was the idea.
Also, you can't have a direct port of another power in the game (except for a cosmetic name change) without "cheapening" both the original AND the knock-off power. Ideally you want each powerset to have its own "unique spin" on powers, to prevent powersets from becoming interchangeable.

I love the Gravity Whip idea

one thing though:

'If the Foe is "too close" (under 10ft) then it does major damage and a big Knockback (think Force Field: Repulsion Bolt of mag 11+ type knockback).'


not sure if want. as a tank the last thing you want is to knock targets out of melee range

Under most nominal circumstances, no.
This is the basic reason why I have no love for Crane Kick in the Martial Arts powerset, for example. It does significant knockback (randomly), which is counterproductive in a melee range context.

However, on a powerset that can "pull AND push" things get a bit different. If you organize the powers in such a way as to effectively use knock(about) as something of a soft control, things can get interesting.

An alternative to a knockBACK would be to do a knockUP instead, if the $Target(s) are "too close" ... creating a sort of "astrophyical jet out the pole(s)" type of appearance (a bit like Whirlwind, in that respect).

#26

General Suggestions and Feedback / Re: Idea: Gravity Armor & Grav...

Last post by Joshex - Jan 06, 2025, 10:58 PM

I see, so you can't add them, the game isn't built to allow that.

Correct.

When you have multiple status effects of the same type, they "layer" on top of each other (in parallel) rather than "chain" together (sequentially).

The boolean condition of whether the status effect "does anything" is determined by the total mag ... the "thickness" of the layers, if you will. This is why 2x stacking is useful in order to generate sufficient mag "depth" to affect $Targets. Mag 2 will only affect Minions, but Mag 2+2 affects Minions, LTs and Bosses, for example.

Each effect runs for its duration independently.
Some powers have stacking limits (limit 1 or limit 4 or limit 8 being the most common), where reapplying the effect overwrites the previous application, discarding any remaining duration of the first application in favor of a "refresh" from the second application. This is often times annotated in the descriptions of powers as being Does Not Stack From Same Caster (or words to that effect).

In other words, you can't think about this problem in terms of simple addition (like you were doing), instead the proper frame is something more akin to TETRIS (kinda sorta, but the analogy is decidedly imperfect).

what we could do is leave taunt alone, and put in a separate +Attract -speed -rech -fly -jump -range - def power. which really wasn't the goal, but would be more standard.

Taunt is the -Range power. It is pretty unique in that respect, for all Tanker and Brute+Scrapper Taunts ... to "force" Foes to reposition themselves closer to the caster of the Taunt. Taunt in primary/secondary powersets will include -Range, while the Presence Pool: Provoke power for taunting does not.

To be honest with you, I think you would probably be better off (conceptually) starting with Ice Armor as a foundational basis/starting point and then modifying Ice Armor: Chilling Embrace such that all of the Slow effects of Ice into being more of a -Speed (fly, jump, run) and -Range debuff. Add +Attract but lose the -Recharge effect. Exchange the -Damage effect for a -Regeneration effect on all affected Foes. The real challenge though would be working out some way to run the Endurance Cost that doesn't "bankrupt" the blue bar too reliably ... one way would be to impose a Max 10 Targets limit on it, along with a limited PBAoE radius.

That gives you a "pull them in so they can't get out" type of PBAoE Aura.

If you want to get EXTRA fancy, could set up the power such that it has "overlapping bands" of effect that add up as Foes get drawn in closer.

20ft radius = 25% effect
16ft radius = 25% effect
12ft radius = 25% effect
8ft radius = 25% effect
You then let all of those effects stack with each other concurrently. So what you wind up with is:
20ft radius: 25% effect
16ft radius: 25+25 = 50% effect
12ft radius: 25+25+25 = 75% effect
8ft radius: 25+25+25+25 = 100% effect

This would then let you do things like setting up each range band as being "equivalent to mag 1" in status effect terms (for purposes of illustration), such that Minions are affected (mag 1+1=2) at 16ft radius ... Lieutenants are affected (mag 1+1+1=3) at 12 ft radius ... and Bosses are only affected (mag 1+1+1+1=4) at 8ft radius. So you get a sort of "layered wedding cake" type of effect behavior out of the power (at the expense of 4x the server computation overhead, which might be a deal breaker, but this is just Blue Sky™ wishful thinking at this point).



Continuing that idea, you can exchange Ice Armor: Icicles for something more akin to a Warshade's Orbiting Death power ... except that instead of doing a (single) PBAoE damage effect like Orbiting Death does, set it up as a PBAoE that does Grant Power to up to Max 5 Targets which causes affected Foes to generate an 8ft PBAoE of damage around themselves for a single damage pulse. So Gravity Armor: Tidal Disruption toggle turns into a power that does more PBAoE damage the more Foes you have around you (up to 5), since they're each generating their own damage aura around themselves while in your "orbit" and close enough to be affected.

Way the power behaves is that the more Foes cluster around you, the more damage they deal to each other as your gravity power "tears them apart" and sends bits of debris swirling around, which become "impactors" under your control that slam into your Foes. Basically, they start "breaking up" under the tidal effects of your gravity power and even rocks and pebbles from the ground turn into "death by a thousand cuts" type missiles that deal harm to your Foes ... such that the more Foes around you, the more debris being generated, the more damage they take from being "trapped" in orbit around you, getting "shredded" by the gravitic tidal forces.



Other ideas that come to mind for a Gravity Melee powerset would be something akin to a Gravity Whip power.

If the Foe is "distant" (more than 20ft) then it rapidly pulls them towards the caster. This is a "move them" rather than a "move you" type of power.

If the Foe is "close" (10-20ft) then it does minor damage and a Knockdown.

If the Foe is "too close" (under 10ft) then it does major damage and a big Knockback (think Force Field: Repulsion Bolt of mag 11+ type knockback).

This then sets up the opportunity for a "pull/push" type of behavior that can "juggle" the positioning of a Foe. From far away, it pulls them in, and from close up it pushes them away.

A really wild alternative for this kind of a Gravity Whip power would be to not make it a single target, but a 30º 40ft Cone attack. Reason why a Cone would be especially good is because Cones can be enhanced for Range (meaning the 40ft base radius can go up!). Additionally, it's also possible to use the "Hop & Pop" move with Cone attacks by melee oriented ATs, such that you jump up vertically so as to "aim" the Cone DOWN below you at your selected $Target. With enough height on the jump for the "Hop & Pop" you can catch multiple Foes clustered around your position on the ground using a Cone that is cast while up in the air during your jump. That way, if you don't want to make a big Knockback against a single Foe with Gravity Whip, you can just jump UP above 10ft from your $Target and get the minor damage+knockdown effect instead on a larger number of Foes that were herded up around your position on the ground.

I learned the "Hop & Pop" move while playing Ice/Ice on a Tanker so as to turn Frost (a 10ft 90º Cone, Max 10 Targets) into something of a "poor man's PBAoE" attack against all the Foes that clustered up around me. Adding Range enhancement to extend that range to ~16ft 90º Cone did wonders for increasing the number of Foes I could hit with Frost when doing the "Hop & Pop" move (no need for Combat Jumping). Was remarkably effective at dealing damage and stacking Slows onto stuff, keeping them "trapped" in close against my Ice/Ice Tanker (where all the damage and debuffing was happening).

this is the kind of feedback I was hoping for from the start lol. this is going to be a tough one to reply to as I need to incorporate what you are saying in some meaningful way.

I'm going to start with something potentially interesting; I had another power concept Idea for a gravity armor/aura or melee set; Foe Float. we already have this mechanic in game, it's a 2 fanged effect foe +fly and foe hold, this combination raises the character in the air but prevents them from moving. we see this in the key's reactor trial with positron's obliteration beam. I'm thinking some variant of this effect should fit into the melee or aura set. but only if when held the enemy can still be pulled in via attract. I imagine something like Ghost Widow's hold animation, where the enemy doesn't just float, they spin.

the float here would serve a secondary purpose, when attracted while floating enemies will push eachother around into a neat ball around the player, not just a ring, because they can fly, this increases the potential number of enemies in melee AoE range.

not sure exactly where or how to fit this into the sets but, it's an interesting idea.

on the topic of conversion of Chilling Embrace to Gravity Aura;

I'm with you on most of it until we hit the -regen on it. I have struggled to think of gravity based concepts which would effect regeneration either positive or negative, instead I had been forced to branch out into spacial phenomenon that are theoretically propelled by gravity, like white holes, wormholes and solar fusion. so depending on what theoretical concept we target for the power it might be hard to imagine how it could lead to -regeneration, however with certain concepts it'd be fairly easy to imagine, however for the concept of a mere "Gravity Well" it's just something that pulls you in, and maybe slows you down, but probably wont damage you or stop you from regenerating, we are on a gravity well right now, it's called Earth.

For this specific set though, I rather think it's iteration of black hole will have sufficient damage over time so that -regen while nice, wont be necessary. instead the idea behind -rech would be more beneficial to the set as you'd be attacked less frequently.

strong def + infrequently attacked +decent regen = ability to stay standing in mobs for this set, or at least that was the idea behind it. it wont have much resistance like ice armor has, theres no physical structure to gravity which could deflect any percent of the damage. essentially the only concepts I could come up with related to gravity which would theoretically supply resistance were Mass, Space-Time Distortion, and Gravity Lensing

I was thinking of a power called "Heavy Mass", initially it was slated to be (+resistance to: Knockback, Hold, Immobilize, Attract, Repel, Teleport, -speed(fly, run, jump), res debuff(speed, recovery, regen, defense)) but no mez resist!

we could add some +res onto that to Smashing, Lethal, Energy, Negative, Fire, and Cold, no toxic nor psionic. but something tells me that might be too much for one power, likely splitting it into 2 powers. looking at Ice Armor it might be good to split the Res into multiple powers, for example "Gravity Lensing" could be the Tier 1 power, (+def all but psionic (15%), +res Energy, Negative (20%))

then Heavy Mass (auto) would have +res movement inhibitation and +res kb etc, and +res smashing, lethal (22.5%)

not sure if I could find a place for heat and cold res, maybe Solar Fusion +regen, +recovery, +res fire, cold(15%).

this would however mean frankenslotting would be common for gravity Aura and people would have to chose which effect of the power to enhance and how much.

I think with that we'd have 8 powers + one per target(upto 10 to 15) buff/bebuff, so 9 powers like the following (listed by level available to a tanker):
(in no way is this anything other than a very rough draft, so forgive me for any overdone numbers or unreasonable abilities for powers, if you see something overdone or unreasonable, attempt to revise it if you can, or just highlight it, I'd appreciate it. this is just attempting to put it in some kind of order, it's really hard to look at like 4 different armor sets and make a fair amalgamation of them.)

Gravity Aura powers:

L1: Toggle: Gravity Lensing, (+def All but psionic (15%), +res Energy, Negative(12.5%))

L1: Auto: Wormhole, (+def Smashing, lethal, Energy, Negative(10%), +recovery(33%), +regeneration(75%))

L2: Toggle: Gravity Well, PBAoE Foe Attract, +rech, -speed (drops on: Mez)

L6: Auto: Heavy Mass, (+res smashing, lethal(22.5%), +resistance to: Knockback, Hold, Immobilize, Attract, Repel, Teleport, -speed(fly, run, jump), res debuff(speed, recovery, regen, defense))

L8: Toggle: Orbit Control (+def All(+1% for upto 10 targets), Foe -rech(10%) -range(50%) -defense(All, 10%) (drops on: Mez))

L12: Toggle: Solar Fusion (+res fire, cold(15%), +regeneration(100%), +recovery(77%))

L18: Click: Whitehole, (Self Rez, Untouchable 30 seconds, with 50% HP, 25% End), Auto: PBAoE Self+Team(+recovery(30%) -rech(15%) +regeneration(50%), +res mez(10%))

L26: Click: (120 seconds) Black Hole, PBAoE Superior DoT Smashing Negative, foe: Attract, Float, -speed, +rech(50%), -Teleport

L32: Click: (360 seconds) Space-Time Distortion, Self: +def All(20%), +res All(12.5%), +regen(100%), +recovery(100%), -rech, Crash:(180 seconds) self -recovery(-100%), -end(75%), -Regeneration(-100%), +rech(50%)


As for the banding idea, it's a great idea, if allowed, however perhaps 2 bands, 1 band that's just attract on the outside, and a second band that's attract + other effects on the insid for gravity well.

Whereas for black hole, use 2 bands of different effect damage, an Event Horizon around black hole where there's a weaker attract and status debuffs, and a Tidal Effect of grantPBAoE 10?DoT x1 (for upto 5 targets per tick)
But when they get sucked in further into the central band, suddenly wham 100? initial damage + (10 DoT x5 Smashing, 10 DoT x5 Negative) to upto 10 targets per tick but not granting a pbaoe to enemies). "ouch" you either get crushed inside or you get hit with flares of chewed up bits outside.


Gravity Melee considerations

I love the Gravity Whip idea

one thing though:

'If the Foe is "too close" (under 10ft) then it does major damage and a big Knockback (think Force Field: Repulsion Bolt of mag 11+ type knockback).'


not sure if want. as a tank the last thing you want is to knock targets out of melee range, I had put that idea on an initial design for Meteor Strike, because what did I think would happen to foes standing around such an impact? but I'm not too hot on chasing down KBed enemies or having them escape the melee damage zone of AoEs.

I like the fact it's a ranged cone attract. it could be a very useful tool for pulling in stubborn "I default to ranged = always, and -100% range = a range of 12ft" enemies and for scaredy-cat enemies "oh.. wow you're really laying the smackdown on them there, I'm-a go run around the map aimlessly".

I'm not certain I could put together a whole gravity melee rough draft yet.

anyways I've incorporated your ideas and advice as best as my limited understanding can do so at the current time, feel free to counter my suggestions.

#27

Looking for Group / Re: Villain Roleplay team star...

Last post by wyldhaunt - Jan 04, 2025, 09:06 AM

Hi! I'm posting this both here and in Discord:

1. It looks like all the people who have shown interest primarily communicate in Discord; some have an active dislike for using forums, so I'm moving our communication for this group to Discord rather than here to make it easier for those of us doing this team.

2. Thursday 7:30pm US CT is the winner for date/time. We'll team for at least an hour, up to 90 minutes depending where we are with content.

3. We'll focus on Kalinda's missions first, street-sweeping our way to/from them - expect some deaths until we're level 4 at least!

4. January 9, 7:30pm US CT will be our inaugural meeting, when we'll break out of the Zig! I'll be there a few minutes early, and like an effective villain, don't plan to make those who are there wait for latecomers. =)

5. If you miss us breaking out of the Zig, you can do that directly and join us later. To be clear: you can join us at any time there's a slot available and I have the attention to reply and invite, but please do send a tell when I'm on with Pound. I likely won't pay a lot of attention to the LFG and other global channels while we're running this team.

6. Please have a least a start of a backstory, enough that you know your character's voice in chat. Being in character is the primary focus of this team, so that we can try to experience and learn some in-character Roleplay while still doing game content.

[Scrapperlock]

#28

Brute / Re: Brute, i am not impressed ...

Last post by Redlynne - Jan 03, 2025, 03:03 PM

Are you listening red? ^^

Of course.

Granted, cone attacks are "not everyone's cup of tea" because they're rather sensitive to tactical positioning. But that just raises the bar on Player Skill required to employ cones usefully, which I don't necessarily see as being that detrimental. In my case, I feel gratified when I'm able to catch all the $Targets I wanted to within my cone attacks.

It only made me dislike cone attacks more. Long activation times and mediocre damage.

Depends on the powers and the build, of course.
Most AoE attacks will do less (raw) damage than a single target attack will, but like the saying goes ... they make it up in volume. So AoE attacks do "more damage" in parallel, but less damage "sequentially" against single targets.

Which is more valuable to you depends on your playstyle and the opposition you want to optimize for.

MMs are time-inefficient in my eyes now.

Depends on your expectations and the engagement strategies you make use of. There are multiple paths to the same objective, with some being better than others at achieving desired outcomes.

Speaking from my own experience, I've found that Tankerminding in Bodyguard Mode is massively advantaged if as a Mastermind I've taken personal attacks (1 single target and 1 AoE being my personal preference, minimum, if global recharge is high enough). By opening engagements with a personal attack from long range, I draw aggro onto myself and any ranged response from my $Target(s) will prompt my MM Pets to retaliate without an Attack command, sustaining Bodyguard Mode. So I've got the aggro to start with, damage that hits me gets divided out amongst the Pets (Bodyguard Mode) and all the Pets focus fire ranged attack in retribution onto whoever attacked me first.

This prevents my MM Pets from rushing into melee (where they'll take the most damage and pull the most aggro) while forcing Foes to advance to my position, during which time my MM Pets continue to cycle ranged attacks. In a lot of situations, a Minion Foe will get defeated just in time to faceplant right in front of my MM, without a single melee attack being thrown (in either direction). All of this happens in just a few scant seconds (with Ninjas), consumes remarkably little endurance from my MM personally, and really brings to bear the advantages of "Many Against One" in being able to focus fire from 6 MM Pets + 1 MM using personal attacks to achieve really quick results ... which of course can be repeated with remarkably little effort.

To put it simply, a Mastermind "played like a brute and damage dealer" might not be quite as successful as a Mastermind who is played a bit more tactically. Rush in and punch stuff (in a Rage) isn't exactly the Way of the Mastermind, so a different mentality is needed in order to exploit the MM AT's strengths while minimizing its weaknesses. If all you want is "hit stuff until they fall down" in your gameplay, then Mastermind probably isn't the best for you. If you're highly prone to Scrapperlock (and those of us who are know who we are!) then Mastermind probably isn't for you.

Playing a Mastermind well is more of a "herding cats" type of experience that requires you to "know your enemy and know yourself" in order to win (almost) every battle. It's not about dropping ACME anvils onto everything in every situation or circumstance ... so you need a lot more situational awareness than is necessary for most Scrapperlock mentalities.

Hope that helps.

I tried the archetype warshade and after that did not bother with the peacebringer. Wayyy too many buttons to press and situational stuff. also difficult to comprehend what does what. not relaxing at all.

Kheldians are COMPLICATED.
Almost as complicated as Masterminds, since Kheldians have different Forms (or "modes" or "stances") of gameplay that they can optimize for.

Needless to say, the Tri-form Kheldian is THE most complicated, while also being the most versatile.

In a lot of ways, if you can handle playing a Kheldian, particularly a Tri-former, you should be able to handle a Mastermind. Both require a LOT of keybind file help to be able to manage and control "all the stuff you can do" in a logical manner in order to be able to exert SOME (pre-fab) control over all the stuff you can do.

I personally would NOT want to play a Kheldian without a well organized set of keybind files that load to control different attacks in different Forms, precisely because of the issue you cite ... too many buttons to keep track of.



For what it's worth, I honestly think that the Warshade is the "more complex" of the two Kheldians because the Warshade feels somewhat "necromantic" in actual gameplay. A LOT of what makes a Warshade powerful has to do with CORPSES (Mires, Stygian Circle, Unchain Essence, Dark Extraction, Eclipse, etc.) which makes Warshades partially dependent on their opposition to reach their maximum potential.

By contrast, Peacebringers are more "self contained/self reliant" in that they don't "need" Foes (dead and alive) to augment their powers. So Peacebringers don't have the same kind of "situational dependency" that Warshades have, making their performance more "even" and predictable in actual gameplay, which often makes them simpler when compared to the more complex situational stuff that Warshade can (and should) get up to with their powers.

Peacebringers "reach IN" for their power and strength.
Warshades "reach OUT" to steal a measure of their power and strength.

This makes Peacebringers feel more even keeled to play, while Warshades are more of a roller coaster (higher highs, but also lower lows) which takes more getting used to managing and controlling as a Player. For this reason, I would recommend anyone new to Kheldians to start with a Peacebringer before branching out into a Warshade, rather than taking the reverse path.

#29

Tanker / Tanker, very solid tanking bui...

Last post by thilenium - Jan 03, 2025, 11:59 AM

Morning!

My global handle is @Thilenium and my ingame characters start with or contain 'Thile' in their name - no exception. So far I have played and equipped about 20 characters. ten of which I took through the incarnate stuff. Others I 'swiped left'.
I made this build to do solo-, party- and tanking endgame-stuff. It propably does not do as much damage as a Brute but is not as slow at soloing stuff as my DA-Tanker. The build represents the current status of my gear and also my zillion hours of experience in improving and reviewing on character builds (tailored to my tastes - sure. and that is where we might not find common ground. but see for yourself).

all the best, Thilenium


Summary Tanker (Radiation Armor - 'Your choice')
+ good starting character
+ good sustain
+ great resistances (lowest 70%, 80% with proc from the tanker-set)
+ high endurance debuff resistance
+ 'Blink Blitz'

- no apparent weaknesses

Contents
a) The role of a Tanker
b) Radiation Armor Primary
c) 'Your choice' Secondary
d) 'Blink Blitz'
e) Genesis Incarnate Power

a) The role of a Tanker
The Tankers role is to soak up and survive all the damage that otherwise squishy targets in your party would face. He does it by having enemy Npc's focus all their attention on him with a special mechanic called 'taunt' - basically coaxing a target into targetting you. Every skill that hits a target, even skills that do not damage the target and just debuff it, taunt. Also taunt has a duration and you can stack it up using the secondary's Taunt-skill (which may vary in name) to make very sure that you are and stay the target. Using the secondary's Taunt-skill on a ranged enemy also reduces their attack range, forcing them to enter melee range.

b) Radiation Armor as Primary
Radiation Armor has good sustain right off the bat with 'Gamma Boost' and proceeds to be tanky way into the late game. With 'Particle Shielding' and 'Radiation Therapy' you have two 'oh shit'-buttons. but with these resistances, those moments will be scarce. That your powers will debuff defenses in enemies, making them more willing to receive damage from your teammates is just another quaint perk.

c) 'Your choice' Secondary
In this example i took Radiation Melee but every other skillset works as well. as long as you use 4 single target attacks and 1 area of effect skill you will not have to change anything. If you want to include a second area of effect from your secondary you can solve this by slotting it with the 'Gauntleted Fist' tanker-set (=3 single-target, 2 aoe attacks). That would be the quickest and you do not have to do any tuning.
  Radiation Melee offers good damage and fits thematically.

d) 'Blink Blitz'
Blink Blitz' is my goto-power for every melee build. lands you smack in the middle of an enemy group, taunts them and gives you defenses. All in one neat package. Follow it up with your aoe and you have all the enemies attention. This skill sometimes lands you in obstacles. with enough cooldown you can use it on a mob to get out of it again. or you can use the command /stuck.

e) Genesis Incarnate Power and helpful keybinds and macros
Genesis Incarnate Power:
Socket Core Flawless Genesis

Helpful macros and keybinds:
/bind f "target_enemy_near$$follow"
>> autofollow nearest enemy

/macro INC "windowtoggle Incarnate"
>> Open the Incarnate window

Using Mids import the following using Menu: Build Sharing/Import DataChunk
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#30

Brute / Re: Brute, looks good on paper...

Last post by thilenium - Jan 03, 2025, 10:55 AM

other fails:

I tried the archetype warshade and after that did not bother with the peacebringer. Wayyy too many buttons to press and situational stuff. also difficult to comprehend what does what. not relaxing at all.