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#51

Player Help/Guides / Re: Praetorian DISloyalty!

Last post by Redlynne - Jan 31, 2025, 10:44 AM

Having played through the entire set of 1-19 storylines in Nova Praetoria, Imperial City and Neutropolis (more than once), I've made a few discoveries.


1.
The Moral High Ground badge simply requires the completion of 5 moral choice missions. There is no requirement for you to actually change sides (loyalist/resistance) during these moral choice missions, so there is no requirement to "betray" either side at any time.

What this means is that it is possible to earn the Moral High Ground badge after completing all 4 story arcs in Nova Praetoria ... regardless of which choices you made at the end of each of those arcs (although, you will need to switch alignments in order to get them all).

So how is it possible to get a badge that requires 5 choices out of 4 story arcs in Nova Praetoria?
Simple. The Tutorial has a moral choice towards the end (loyalist/resistance) which COUNTS towards your 5 choices ... and 1+4=5 (right? ). So the moral (choice) of the story is, always run the Praetorian Tutorial ... and not just because of the Avid Reader badge is obtainable during the Tutorial.


2.
It is not (strictly speaking) "necessary" to change your alignment "every single time" in order to "do all the things" in Nova Praetoria, Imperial City and Neutropolis in order to access ALL of the story arcs. And since the Moral High Ground badge does not require you to CHANGE alignment in order to earn it (reaffirming "counts" too) it is possible to choose a path through Praetoria which "betrays" your current alignment only 1/2 the time (rather than every single time).

This distinction has knock on consequences later on.

The Resistance (Warden) story arc in Neutropolis (Aaron Walker -> Penelope Yin -> Dark Watcher) will have Calvin Scott make a personal appearance in the moral choice at the end. If you choose Loyalist, you'll have to fight Calvin Scott personally (and you won't get to defeat him no matter what you do, he'll "escape" like a Sentai Villain every time). The consequence of this choice is that Calvin Scott will NEVER speak to you again under any circumstances. Calvin Scott DISAPPEARS from your list of Contacts (so you can't call him). If you walk up to him in the Resistance Base in Underground Neutropolis, he won't talk to you. What this means is that if you "betray" Calvin Scott IN PERSON at the end of the Resistance (Warden) story arc in Neutropolis, that bridge is BURNED ... permanently.

Needless to say, not everyone is going to think that's "ideal" (for reasons various and sundry), since that's a No Take Backs™ (without rerolling) type of result.

So if you're the type of Player who still wants to "do all the things" in Praetoria (which does NOT have any opportunities for Flashback via Ouroboros!) but you don't want to be following a "Betray EVERY TIME" type of path, here's an alternative route you can take through the story arcs of Praetoria.

Resistance (Warden)
Nova Praetoria

• Robert Flores -> Tunnel Rat -> Doctor Arvin

Imperial City (do Resistance Warden first)

• Jessica Flores -> Luke Larson -> Doctor Steffard -> Seer 1381

Neutropolis

• Aaron Walker -> Penelope Yin -> Dark Watcher

=====

Resistance (Crusader)
Underground Nova

• Ricochet -> Splice -> Jack Hammer

Underground Imperial

• Hatchet -> Beholder -> Vagabond -> Wardog

Underground Neutropolis (do Resistance Crusader first)

• Crow -> Helix -> Calvin Scott

=====

Loyalist (Responsibility)
Nova Praetoria

• Chief Interrogator Washington -> Cleopatra

Imperial City (do Resistance Warden first)

• Interrogator Kang -> Alec Parson -> Investigator Whitworth -> Chance McKnight

Neutropolis

• IVy -> Praetor Tilman -> Anti-Matter

=====

Loyalist (Power)
Nova Praetoria

• Deputy Assistant of Information -> Warrant -> Reese

Imperial City

• Mr. G -> Transmuter -> Tami Baker -> Praetor Sinclair

Neutropolis

• Dr. Hetzfeld -> Bobcat -> Neuron

=====

Resistance End

Nova Praetoria (1-9) = Resistance (Crusader) -> Resistance (Warden) -> Loyalist (Power) -> Loyalist (Responsibility) -> RESISTANCE!
Imperial City (8-14) = Resistance (Warden) -> Resistance (Crusader) -> Loyalist (Power) -> Loyalist (Responsibility) -> RESISTANCE!
Neutropolis (15-20) = Resistance (Warden) -> Resistance (Crusader) -> Loyalist (Power) -> Loyalist (Responsibility) -> RESISTANCE!

=====

Loyalist End
Nova Praetoria (1-9) = Loyalist (Responsibility) -> Resistance (Warden) -> Resistance (Crusader) -> Loyalist (Power) -> LOYALIST!
Imperial City (8-14) = Loyalist (Power) -> Resistance (Warden) -> Resistance (Crusader) -> Loyalist (Responsibility) -> LOYALIST!
Neutropolis (15-20) = Loyalist (Responsibility) -> Resistance (Crusader) -> Resistance (Warden) -> Loyalist (Power) -> LOYALIST!


Point being that there's more than 1 path through Praetoria which allows you to "do all the things" and "earn all the badges" (and merit rewards!) from completing all of the story arcs in 1-19 Praetoria.

Choosing to be a Loyalist in the Tutorial means that Provost Marchand is your "secret" Contact, so an outcome where Calvin Scott "never trusts or talks to you again" isn't a problem.

But if you chose Resistance in the Tutorial and Calvin Scott IS your "secret" Contact, then betraying Calvin Scott (in person!) at the end of the Resistance (Warden) arc in Neutropolis MIGHT BE a problem for you (as a Player) since if you choose Loyalist in that mission, Calvin Scott will cut all ties with you ... permanently. So having an option where you can stay in Calvin Scott's good graces "for all time" is probably an attractive notion for you.



As a reminder for anyone who is interested in avoiding "lockouts" when doing these alternative pathing options through Praetoria:

• On Rebirth, in Nova Praetoria, Inspector Washington can be killed in the Loyalist (Responsibility) arc in the confrontation with Cleopatra (moral choice mission) without causing any problems with the Loyalist (Power) arc. Originally on the Paragon Studios servers this WAS a hazard, but a different NPC Contact is used during the Deputy Assistant of Information's story arc to avoid this issue of pathing through the story arcs at such low levels with no way of knowing (in advance) that this could become a problem.
• Do Resistance (Warden) BEFORE Loyalist (Responsibility) in Imperial City.
  Doctor Steffard (3rd Resistance Contact) is Cutter Cain that Interrogator Kang brings in during the start of the Loyalist (Responsibility) arc. So if you do Interrogator Kang first, Doctor Steffard won't be accessible and you'll "break the chain" for the Resistance (Warden) arc such that it cannot be completed. Note that you can do the Resistance (Warden) arc while your alignment is Loyalist.
• Do Resistance (Crusader) BEFORE Resistance (Warden) in Neutropolis *IF* you are going to choose Loyalist at the end of the Resistance (Warden) arc.
  Calvin Scott is the final contact in the chain of the Resistance (Crusader) arc in Neutropolis, so if you complete the Resistance (Warden) arc and choose Loyalist you'll "break the chain" for the Resistance (Crusader) arc such that it cannot be completed.

#52

Off-topic / Re: Joshexs Dreamtime

Last post by Joshex - Jan 30, 2025, 11:02 AM

just to clarify due to irl events; a rocket ship is not a passenger jet, nor a military helicopter. so the fact there was a real-life incident later that day with eerie similarities is not necessarily a confirmation of my dream.

though eye witnesses of the irl plane crash I'm mentioning reported word for word "a spray of sparks".. that's what makes this eerie to me.

"Eyewitness Ari Schulman was driving home when he looked up and saw the plane falling from the sky. 'It was illuminated bright yellow underneath and there was a spray of sparks underneath - I knew something was wrong,' he said."

"then there was a large spray of sparks from where the rocket would be. people made comments that it didn't look good."

again, I'm conflicted as to whether this is coincidence or predictive. I saw a rocket, not a plane. in the dream I could not see what caused the spray of sparks clearly. It was a small object that zipped through the rocket(however at such a distance a small object could have been larger that interpreted). at the time I thought it was a silver disc-shaped thing but I was far away so I could not be sure (hence I did not write it in yesterday's dream log). I couldn't really even see the rocket clearly at that point.

so I'll stick with my story, I saw a rocket not a plane, and a silver disc zip through it and a spray of sparks, not a military helicopter.

just in case people start believing this or something, I'm hessitant to believe and I'm the one having the dreams lol.

#53

Off-topic / Re: Joshexs Dreamtime

Last post by Joshex - Jan 29, 2025, 01:01 PM

I had a really vivid one last night. it was fairly long, but not 3 days worth. more like 2 days worth.

I had been rushed to pack things for a trip on a cruise, I ended up having to leave some important things behind, but when we got to the port we were too late anyways, hence the rush. We ended up traveling by land to attempt to catch the boat at it's next port of call. I know there was a long string of events in-between, but the events were essentially just traveling so unremarkable except for the scenery which was quite nice. we got to the next port and they complained about our tickets saying we weren't on the roster as having boarded at our original port so they'd have to ask if an exception could be made, normally they don't allow it.

essentially we didn't get on the boat. I was blamed for it constantly. we ended up being allowed to stay in someone's house. I sneezed and had a runny nose after sleeping there. they said to stay in my room as they didn't want to catch it. after I dried my nose and disposed on the tissue, I went down stairs and sat on the couch and talked to someone who was there, he asked if I was ok, then I got dizzy, and when I couldn't hold on to consciousness any more I fell down on the couch and told him I felt delirious, I passed out and woke up in reality, albeit very tired as it was still early, but still able to talk to him for a short time after waking up in irl.

I eventually fell back to sleep irl, and I woke up in the other place, and they had me in a car and were apparently taking me to someplace, likely to a doctor.


we went through a vastly built up but short city., the buildings were not tall, but there were alot of them, we were going through an industrial area but there was fencing and a large open feild outside a factory, and from it they launched a rocket, I watched out the car window as the rocket went up and eventually got out of sight. then there was a large spray of sparks from where the rocket would be. people made comments that it didn't look good. then the top of the rocket came speeding back down, then changed course to make a sliding landing through the street at a 90 degree angle that we had just passed. the driver joked in bad taste saying the guy piloting that one probably wont be walking away from that crash. I remarked "well..." and was going to say"it did skid across the ground so there's a chance he survived" Then the other end of the rocket came spinning down and crashed off to the side of my view some moderate distance away in an industrial building's parking lot.

we kept driving for a short distance and I fell asleep there and woke up here in irl again. very strange super vivid and lucid dreams.

#54

Live Bug Reporting / Re: Warburg LabTechnician Maps...

Last post by Joshex - Jan 28, 2025, 06:13 PM

I hit the same issue with my kinetic/electric defender. Socket core flawless genesis being equipped caused a crash, not didn't. Re-equipping genesis when I had a technician following caused a mapserve within maybe 5 seconds. (Unlike some people's experiences my socket was still equipped after I loaded back in)

I however had reactive core flawless for my interface socketed (as socket affects that proc at higher levels) so this implies a: it's the genesis being socketed specifically, and b: as warburg is below 50 it's likely the under-level-45 proc component causing issues.

We'd need someone with a different genesis to check, specifically if using the granted genesis power of the other three counts. (The reason being the other three grant a use power, but socket gives a proc and it's a delayed crash so could well be on the proc activating)

I had a thought about this, I'd be interested in knowing what form of critter the lab technicians are. specifically because they are in a pvp zone I wonder if they are coded to have tohit or resistance though they do not have a health bar and cannot die.

My point is, if socket core flawless is casting a debuff or buff on the lab tech that it can "technically" recieve because it does have that stat, but that stat is hardcoded or causes a chain reaction to modify values which do not exist on the target.. that'd definitely crash the mapserver or at least confuse it beyond recovery.

imagine casting a tohit check on a critter that is an invalid target with no stats at all, OR nothing to modify where an Unresistable effect is cast.

imagine if it was trying to cast DoT onto the labtech who has no health value to be adjusted and cannot die, NoneType - 5 DoT = crash..

I suspect this is the shared issue between all toons which cause the crash genesis or not.

#55

General / Re: Attempt: Developing Web Mi...

Last post by Redlynne - Jan 28, 2025, 09:28 AM

sounds good, it will speed up the process, what I'll do is continue as normal and limit the precision to 15. If there are problems where things are totaling up wrong, then I'll make custom long-math calculators.

We make every pretense of competency around here ... ^_~

#56

General / Re: Attempt: Developing Web Mi...

Last post by Joshex - Jan 27, 2025, 07:27 PM

Javascript cannot represent any number (int or decimal/float) longer than 17 digits

Just as a Rule Of Thumb™ ... I'm thinking that 10 significant digits ought to be "sufficient" for most calcluations ... and that if necessary you might want to limit to 15 significant digits in all circumstances. The motivation behind that notion is that 15 significant digits gives you a "2 digit buffer" below the limit of 17.

sounds good, it will speed up the process, what I'll do is continue as normal and limit the precision to 15. If there are problems where things are totaling up wrong, then I'll make custom long-math calculators.

#57

General / Re: Attempt: Developing Web Mi...

Last post by Redlynne - Jan 27, 2025, 03:22 PM

Javascript cannot represent any number (int or decimal/float) longer than 17 digits

Just as a Rule Of Thumb™ ... I'm thinking that 10 significant digits ought to be "sufficient" for most calcluations ... and that if necessary you might want to limit to 15 significant digits in all circumstances. The motivation behind that notion is that 15 significant digits gives you a "2 digit buffer" below the limit of 17.

#58

General Suggestions and Feedback / Re: Canary in the mine

Last post by Joshex - Jan 27, 2025, 12:42 PM

Nah, turns out foxes *eat* birds. Or more specifically firefox has issues with the forum software (but not chromium base). This is the only thing chrome is used for on my computer, and I hate it but until it can be pinned down... well...

This was a thread to test if I could read/reply to things, and helped me figure out the browser thing.

<-- is on Firefox 51.0

problems I have;

unrelated to the browser:
1: I have a massive firewall with neat rules for various spyware vendors to block outgoing connections to them. One such vendor is cloudflare on which rebirth is hosted, so I've sepaarated out rebirth by IP addresses into it's own rule, however forum Icons do not load unless I unblock cloudflare entirely as cloudflare dynamically assigns a random IP in their ranges for the images.

fix: if I want to see the icons that badly I'll unblock cloudflare temporarily by toggling the firewall rule off.

Issues Related to the browser;
1: some buttons on the forum do not work, or only work once per page load. such as the "Quick Edit" button.

fix: try to make sure I typed everything correctly before I hit save. Or, reload the page. Or use More>Modify.

why 51.0? you can tell it to not update and it listens, and; flashplayer. I really think the decision on whether we can use flashplayer in our browser should be upto the user. not some mandate from browser devs wanting to recreate the internet in their image - for profit reasons.

51.0 isn't like new FF, new FF has essentially been taken over by google. mozilla's website is hosted on google, and their updater connects through google. so. we know whos pulling the strings. They play'in monopoly or what?

I've considered palemoon. perhaps I will use it eventually. as far as I know they are a modern browser which still supports flashplayer. and from what I've read unlike all the other googled browsers which are killing support for win7 users (with a built-in brick so their browser will not install on win7 even though it could if they didn't brick it, so it's intentional update-march pushing which seems very fishy.) Palemoon still supports win7 last I checked.

anyways. glad you got it figured out on your end. I do wish the new forum had a spoiler tag though. I use <details> and <summary> tags on my website for spoilers. <details></details> is the actual spoiler wrapper, where inserting a <summary> tag into a next level tab bend allows you to give the spoiler a title</summary>.

<details>
    <summary>spoiler name</summary> 
    content in your spoiler.
</details>

it's that simple.

#59

General / Re: Attempt: Developing Web Mi...

Last post by Joshex - Jan 26, 2025, 10:30 PM

OK so I decided to jump ahead and test math, Javascript cannot represent any number (int or decimal/float) longer than 17 digits,
so
12345678901234567
or
1.2345678901234567
or
12.345678901234567
or
123.45678901234567

you get the Idea, any number with that many digits just moves the decimal. and any number longer than that gets it's last number rounded up based on whats after it.

so
123.45678901234567890123
gets evaluated as
123.45678901234568

this means there may be inaccuracies even if I do convert floats to strings and int them then mathematically operate on them.

the most worrying calc would probably be determining duration of mez where mez protection is ((0.5*the number) / 10,000)+0.5*the number as that would leave only 12 trailing digits.

naturally most displayed numbers are 2 to 3 decimals, and this page is indeed just for user eyes to see "display" numbers that they'd expect to see displayed in game from a player point of view, so it shouldn't be that bad. however there is room for fault. especially because  I'll have to .round() the numbers to 2 or 3 decimals.  I just dealt with a similar issue in my game, but there there's no upper digit limit. there I used the python Decimal module. however the javascript Decimal modual is not native and I tried importing it and it gave an export error which means it's broken or written in neoJS.

I mean yeah I could probably spend a day looking it over and determining their methods (as I have the sourcecode) then simply applying those methods in my code, I did do some of that today, the js decimal converts a number into a string then operates on it without converting it back to an int or float, this way they can do the math digit by digit the same way you'd do manual math and deal with single digit integers as input. I suspect heavy use of number.valueOf() to cut off unreal float trails before stringing them up again and adding things back together, manually.

this gets rid of the 17 text-character/digit limit as strings can be any size, with-in reason. I doubt we'll need 50,000 decimals.

it does add extra workload, but I'll get to it eventually.

#60

Live Bug Reporting / Re: Warburg LabTechnician Maps...

Last post by RagingCheney - Jan 26, 2025, 09:58 PM

I hit the same issue with my kinetic/electric defender. Socket core flawless genesis being equipped caused a crash, not didn't. Re-equipping genesis when I had a technician following caused a mapserve within maybe 5 seconds. (Unlike some people's experiences my socket was still equipped after I loaded back in)

I however had reactive core flawless for my interface socketed (as socket affects that proc at higher levels) so this implies a: it's the genesis being socketed specifically, and b: as warburg is below 50 it's likely the under-level-45 proc component causing issues.

We'd need someone with a different genesis to check, specifically if using the granted genesis power of the other three counts. (The reason being the other three grant a use power, but socket gives a proc and it's a delayed crash so could well be on the proc activating)