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Martial Prowess for Tankers.

Started by Redlynne, Dec 15, 2024, 10:26 AM

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Redlynne

Rebirth Issue 6 proliferated the Martial Prowess Epic Pool to Tankers (and Brutes, but I'm just interested in the Tanker side of things for this post).

For this topic, I'm explicitly interested in:
  • Battle Hardened: Auto: +Max HP, +Max End
  • Art of War (Tankers only): Auto: Global Chance of +DMG (all), +End Discount
  • Valiance: Toggle: Self +Regen; Ally +Regen, +Res (Fear, Confuse)

Battle Hardened adds +7.5% Max HP (same amount as the Resistance: Unbreakable Guard unique) and +3.5 Max Endurance. This power can be enhanced using Heal and Endurance Modification, which will (presumably) increase the +Max HP and +Max END yield of this power. As a One Slot Wonder™, I'm thinking that a common Heal IO 50+5 would be a good choice, since that would yield a +53% enhancement for a throughput of +11.475% Max HP (+215.052975 Max HP on a Tanker) ... which then makes all of your Regeneration healing ticks larger per tick (5% of Max HP per 12 seconds, base, where +Regeneration makes the ticks happen faster, while +Max HP makes the ticks "bigger").

Art of War ... accepts ZERO enhancements. It's just a proc (Auto) power that can stack +7.5% Damage and +5% Endurance Reduction globally up to 3 times (so +22.5% Damage and +15% Endurance Reduction, max stack of 3).

Valiance adds +80% Regeneration to self ... along with +60% Regeneration and +72.66% Resist Confuse and Terrorize in a 30ft PBAoE aura field around you ... and the power accepts Endurance Reduction, Recharge Reduction and Heal enhancements (I need to verify via a complete respec if that includes Heal sets). If Valiance accepts Heal sets, then there are 2 BE ALL/END ALL options for how to slot this power.

One Slot Wonder™ ... Panacea proc.
Six Slot Wonder™ ... all six Panacea enhancements.

Why?
Because the Panacea proc(s, there are 2 in the enhancement that are checked separately) grants +HP and +End to ALL $Targets affected by the Heal power. Unlike other Heal set procs, the Panacea proc is not a Self Only for the caster ... ALL affected $Targets can gain the benefit of the procs.

Therefore ... in Valiance ... the Panacea proc is granting chances to proc +HP and +End to everyone within the 30ft PBAoE of the +Regeneration (and Confuse+Terrorize Mez Resistance) effect, which will also include yourself(?). In other words, Valiance with Panacea proc makes you into a "good place for Allies to cluster around" for both green bar AND blue bar "healing" within 30ft of you. This is a Set & Forget toggle.

A 6-slot Panacea will yield the following Healing enhancement throughput:
  • Level 27: 21.1+21.1+16.9+33.7=92.8% Pre-ED ... 89.96% Post-ED ... 95.96% with 6-slot set bonus
  • Level 27+5: (21.1+21.1+16.9+33.7)*1.25=116% Pre-ED ... 97.4% Post-ED ... 103.4% with 6-slot set bonus
Computing that into throughput on the Regeneration, we get the following:
  • Self @ 27: 80*1.9596 = +156.768% Regeneration
  • Self @ 27+5: 80*2.034 = +162.72% Regeneration
  • Allies @ 27: 60*1.9596 = +117.576% Regeneration
  • Allies @ 27+5: 60*2.034 = +122.04% Regeneration
For reference, Inherent: Health adds +40% Regeneration (base).

If the Self+Allies stack for you, that means that with 6-slot Panacea, you're getting a combined yield of:
  • 27: +274.344% Regeneration
  • 27+5: +284.76% Regeneration
Of course (as usual), I'm looking at Level 27 enhancement slotting as the optimal Exemplar Friendly™ option, since the set bonuses are retained all the way down to Level 24.

If you want to maximize the +Regeneration yield and don't care about the 6-slot set bonuses when Exemplared, you can use Level 50+5 Panacea enhancements.
  • Level 50+5: (26.5+26.5+21.1+42.4)*1.25=145.625% Pre-ED ... 101.84375% Post-ED ... 107.84375% with 6-slot set bonus
  • Self @ 50+5: 80*2.0784375 = +166.275% Regeneration
  • Allies @ 50+5: 60*2.0784375 = +124.70625% Regeneration
  • Self+Allies @ 50+5: 80*2.0784375+60*2.0784375 = +290.98125% Regeneration
So going the Exemplar Unfriendly™ route of 50+5 yields ... +6.22125% Regeneration to Self+Allies ... relative to the 27+5 Exemplar Friendly™ option. In other words, not enough to really notice during Incarnate Trials, but you will DEFINITELY notice the loss of set bonuses when Exemplared between Levels 24-46 (which is relevant to a LOT of Task Forces and Strike Forces, not to mention Flashbacks for completionism).



Where things start getting REALLY INTERESTING for Valiance is when combined with Quickness in Super Reflexes and whatever you're slotting into Health.
6-slot Panacea @ 27+5: +284.76% Regeneration
1-slot Quickness with Heal 50+5: 75*1.59 = +119.25 Regeneration
Health (base): +40% Regeneration ... Heal 50+5 = 40*0.59 = +23.6% Regeneration ... Regenerative Tissue proc = +25% Regeneration
  • 284.76+119.25+40+23.6+25 = +492.61% Regeneration
  • 12/5.49261 = 5% Max HP Regeneration ticks every 2.1847537 seconds
And that's not including ANY OTHER SET BONUSES from the entirety of a Super Reflexes Tanker build.
Get the total stack of (in combat) Regeneration buffing over +500% and you're receiving 5% Max HP ticks of regeneration in under 2 seconds (because 12/(1+5)=2) ... as a Super Reflexes Tanker.

And why would that be important?
Well ... with 5% Max HP Regeneration ticks "arriving" at intervals of less than 2 seconds, that means that over the Lethal Force Authorized duration of 4 seconds, you'll have 10% more HP than you otherwise would have for Lethal Force Authorized to burn through (and Lethal Force Authorized scales to your AT Max HP Limit, not your build's Max HP with powers and slotting).

What this means is that combined with Practiced Brawler adding +Absorb every 0.5 seconds, a Super Reflexes Tanker will be able to "soak" the Practiced Brawler Absorb amount 4x plus 5% of Max HP 2x from the amount of damage you need to withstand from Lethal Force Authorized, which is a 30% of Max HP for your Archetype dealt as Energy damage every 1.0s for 4 seconds. Due to Purple Patch level differentials (War Walkers compute as Level 55), that means a 1.22x multiplier on those 30% of Max HP for your Archetype dealt as Energy damage every 1.0s for 4 seconds ... which computes out to being 30*1.22=36.6% of Max HP x4 Energy damage.

For a Tanker, Archetype Max HP is 3534.
3534 * 0.366 = 1293.444 Energy damage x4 over 4 seconds.

Practiced Brawler 6-slotted with Numina's Convalescence = ~290-300 Absorb every 0.5s (details vary due to build and set bonus stacking).
Redlynne's current (before respec) Regeneration runs at ~140 HP per tick my current build (before respec into Martial Prowess) can only reliably achieve 1x Regeneration tick (possibly 2) during the 4 second DoT of Lethal Force Authorized. And my current build for Redlynne (before respec) only has 2836.9 Max HP due to powers and set bonuses.

So Lethal Force Authorized is dealing at least 1293-294=999 Energy damage 4x = 3,996 Energy through Practiced Brawler Absorb shielding.
1 Regeneration tick will reduce that to 3996-141=3855 Energy damage before Resistances.

Redlynne has 24.5 Energy Resistance ... so 3855/1.245 = 3096 Energy damage to my green bar, which tops out at 2836.9 HP when undamaged. This is why I need to use Resist Inspirations in order to be able to Main Tank the War Walker encounters in the Underground Trial.
3855 / 2836.9 = 1.35887765 = 36% Energy Resistance minimum to be able to "take the hit" from Lethal Force Authorized ... and survive ... when starting from 0 damage taken and Practiced Brawler Absorb at full. Obviously, higher Energy Resistance HELPS A LOT with that ... and there are adds mixed in with the War Walkers throwing attacks (some of which "leak through" even Super Reflexes Defenses), so an "acceptable" margin needs to be higher than 36% (with closer to 50% being preferable).



Which is a very long winded way of saying that I THINK there might be a way to finesse the Lethal Force Authorized "main tanker check" in such a way as to be able to dispense with the need for additional +Absorb powers (Super Reflexes: Elude and Gadgetry: Force Barrier being the go to choices here) in order to survive being hit by Lethal Force Authorized. I'm going to need to do some more theorycrafting in the context of a completed build plan (because ALL of the set bonuses and modifiers are going to come into play!) ... but I think I'm actually onto a more "baseline, always on" solution to the Lethal Force Authorized conundrum which doesn't need to rely on use of Click powers (Force Barrier and/or Elude) combined with Resistance Inspirations, both of which have durations that can expire before encounters with War Walkers can be completed, creating windows of vulnerability that occasionally result in Faceplanting™ with Redlynne, if I'm not careful. It's the combination of temporary solutions against KRYPTONITE that have me always on edge every time I need to Main Tank the War Walkers in the Underground Trial.

Having a build plan that is more "reliable" at getting over this particular hurdle would give me a lot more confidence at being able to Main Tank the War Walkers in the Underground Trial ... and it's starting to look like going the +Max HP and +Regeneration route, along with a dramatic overhaul of the slotting in Super Reflexes powers (on the order of "change your brand") will provide the necessary solution I've been searching for.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

Atom Bomb

That is good information about the Panacea Proc Valiance working on everyone in a 30ft range of you, however my selfish side is going to come out and ask, "Why would you do that, especially as a tanker?".

I typically slap the Panacea proc in a "Health" slot at level 10.  The +HP/+END helps out a ton at the low end levels (if I am updating an older level 50 since it is a PVP set you can slap it in Health at 50 and it will continue to work at level 10).

If you put it in Valiance a power that you can at best get at level 44 (I think) then once you drop down in levels to do TFs or other things that can gain you merits you lose the proc because you lose access to the power.

Now if you are playing a character you never drop down in levels on then I guess that is a good place to drop it, but from my own personal stand point I don't see the benefit of dropping it in a level 44 power.

Redlynne

Quote from: Atom Bomb on Dec 23, 2024, 08:25 PMmy selfish side is going to come out and ask, "Why would you do that, especially as a tanker?".
Because it makes me someone that everyone else wants to be around.
  • 60ft radius Maneuvers aura
  • 60ft radius Assault aura
  • 60ft radius Tactics aura
  • 30ft radius Valiance aura (with Panacea proc)
Just by BEING THERE, I make everyone else around me BETTER at what they can do.

Quote from: Atom Bomb on Dec 23, 2024, 08:25 PMI typically slap the Panacea proc in a "Health" slot at level 10.  The +HP/+END helps out a ton at the low end levels (if I am updating an older level 50 since it is a PVP set you can slap it in Health at 50 and it will continue to work at level 10).

If you put it in Valiance a power that you can at best get at level 44 (I think) then once you drop down in levels to do TFs or other things that can gain you merits you lose the proc because you lose access to the power.
The Panacea proc does help when Exemplared down pretty far, but when exemplared down to Level 29-, my SR/MA/MP Tanker build gets limited to only 3 attacks (Thunder Kick, Storm Kick, Cobra Strike), so tremendous amounts of Recovery aren't exactly as much of a priority as might be the case in other builds ... particularly after being fully built out @ Level 50.

Ultimately this comes down to a question of share vs selfish (as you point out).
  • If you keep the Panacea proc exclusively for yourself, you'll NEVER share it with others, because you'll have it slotted in Health (which is self only).
  • If you slot Panacea into Valiance, you'll be able to "share" it with others, but only down to -5 Levels below when you chose the power (or -3 Levels below the enhancement levels themselves, whichever comes first as you Exemplar down).
As you can see in my SR/MA/MP Tanker build, I take Valiance @ Level 47 (the last level it's possible to get 4+ slots into a power), so I have Valiance and the Panacea proc @ Exemplar Levels 42-50 ... which is sufficient for me and my playstyle (even when Exemplared to 41-).

So the matrix of potentials basically comes down to this (in my own build):
  • Panacea proc in Health ... Self: Yes, Allies: No ... Levels 7-50
  • Panacea proc in Valiance ... Self: No, Allies: No ... Levels 7-41
  • Panacea proc in Valiance ... Self: Yes, Allies: Yes ... Levels 42-50
On balance, and in the context of the wider build plan ... I consider that a worthwhile tradeoff (and it IS a tradeoff). If you design your build plan "right" you won't "need" the Panacea procs in Health to keep your green and blue bars filled when Exemplared to Levels 7-41, you'll have enough Endurance Reduction (and set bonuses) working for you while Exemplared such that Panacea procs become "nice to have" for yourself, rather than an absolute necessity (preccccccioussssssssss...) of the make or break variety in order to remain viable. Needless to say, there are a variety of strategies you can use which will make the Panacea proc in Health a less than 1st priority.



Let me give you an example, by way of an analysis of alternatives.

A while back, I liked doing this slotting for Health:
  • Regenerative Tissue - +25% Regeneration: Level 10
  • Miracle - +15% Recovery: Level 20
  • Numina's Convalescence - +10% Recovery, +20% Regeneration: Level 30
Since the base (unenhanced) regeneration of Health is +40%, this slotting yielded:
  • Regeneration: 40+25+20 = +85%
  • Recovery: 15+10 = +25%

But when I was doing the rebuild for Redlynne, I realized there was a better way to slot Health:
  • Miracle - +15% Recovery: Level 20
  • Numina's Convalescence - Heal: Level 31+5
  • Numina's Convalescence - +10% Recovery, +20% Regeneration: Level 30
The Level 31+5 Heal yields +35.2% enhancement @ Level 31 ... and a +5 booster increases that amount by x1.25 (boosters are a x1.05 enhancement values per +1).
  • 35.2*1.25 = 44%
The (base) regeneration of 40% in Health is therefore enhanced to become:
  • 40*1.44 = +57.6%
Add the effect of the Numina's Convalescence proc and you're up to:
  • 57.6+20 = +77.6%
But now, you've got a 2 slot set bonus from Numina's Convalescence to add to the mix, which yields an additional 12%. So with the update to the slotting, the yield is:
  • Regeneration: 40*1.44+20+12 = +89.6%
  • Recovery: 15+10 = +25%
So +4.6% more Regeneration than using the Regenerative Tissue proc in Health, while losing none of the +Recovery bonus. So a very small differential in terms of direct slotting ... except ... that because I didn't put the Regenerative Tissue proc into Health, I can now slot it elsewhere, which would then yield 89.6+25 = +114.6% Regeneration relative to putting the proc into Health.



So for builds which lack an AoE Heal power (of any variety), putting the Panacea proc into Health makes a lot of sense ... but for builds that HAVE an AoE Heal power, the calculus of relative worth shifts a bit and other alternatives may wind up being preferable.

Your mileage may vary, of course. ;)


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.