Author Topic: [RI5] SR/MA Tanker = NO GET HITSU!!  (Read 1678 times)

Redlynne

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[RI5] SR/MA Tanker = NO GET HITSU!!
« on: March 02, 2023, 12:38:00 pm »
This time around, I think I'll start with the build first ... WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU!!! after, because ... reasons ...




This post shows where the build is intended to finish at by Level 50 with the Incarnate slots (now) filled in.
Alpha: T4 Agility Radial
Judgement: T4 Ion Radial
Interface: T4 Gravitic Radial (although this can be almost anything you want)
Lore: T4 Robotic Drones Core
Destiny: T4 Rebirth Radial
Hybrid: T4 Support Radial

Note that with respect to Enhancement Boosters, only 82 Boosters have been strategically spent on this build (as noted below) in order to "plus ultra!" a select few powers where such modifiers can have the greatest impact.





In-game Combat Attributes reporting (because Mids Reborn doesn't calculate this correctly):
  • 435.06% Regeneration of 2649.47 Max HP = 132.4735 HP every 2.76s = 48.03 HP/s
  • Practiced Brawler +Absorb = +294.85
  • Force Barrier = +1187.42 (+1482.28 total w/ Practiced Brawler)
  • Elude = +1464.19  (+1759.05 total w/ Practiced Brawler)



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This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.4.7.5 DBVersion 2023.2.302
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!



Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Secondary Power Set: Martial Arts
Power Pool: Gadgetry
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Focused Fighting
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 27
  • (13) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 27
  • (15) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 27
  • (19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 25
Level 1: Thunder Kick
  • (A) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
  • (3) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (5) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (7) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  • (9) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  • (11) Superior Might of the Tanker - Recharge/Chance for +Res(All): Level 50
Level 2: Storm Kick
  • (A) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
  • (3) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/RechargeTime: Level 50
  • (5) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime: Level 50
  • (7) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50
  • (9) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 50
  • (11) Superior Gauntleted Fist - RechargeTime/+Absorb: Level 50
Level 4: Jetpack
  • (A) Flight Speed IO: Level 50+5
Level 6: Practiced Brawler
  • (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 30
  • (34) Numina's Convalesence - Heal/Endurance: Level 31+5
  • (37) Numina's Convalesence - Endurance/Recharge: Level 31
  • (40) Numina's Convalesence - Heal/Recharge: Level 31
  • (42) Numina's Convalesence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 31
  • (42) Numina's Convalesence - Heal: Level 31+5
Level 8: Focused Senses
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 27
  • (13) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 27
  • (17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 27
  • (19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 25
Level 10: Warrior's Provocation
  • (A) Taunt Duration IO: Level 50+5
Level 12: Evasion
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 27
  • (15) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 27
  • (17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 27
  • (21) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 25
Level 14: Dodge
  • (A) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All): Level 10
  • (21) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance: Level 27
  • (23) Shield Wall - Defense/Recharge: Level 27
  • (23) Shield Wall - Defense: Level 27
Level 16: Agile
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 25
  • (50) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 10
  • (50) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All): Level 10
Level 18: Lucky
  • (A) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed, Fly Speed, Jump Speed +10.5%: Level 15
  • (25) Gift of the Ancients - Defense: Level 27
  • (25) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance: Level 27
  • (27) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Recharge: Level 27
Level 20: Focus Chi
  • (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up: Level 21
  • (46) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff: Level 22
  • (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge: Level 22
  • (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance: Level 22
  • (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance: Level 22
  • (50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 22
Level 22: Maneuvers
  • (A) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage: Level 20
  • (42) Reactive Defenses - Defense: Level 22
  • (43) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance: Level 22
  • (43) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 22
  • (43) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime: Level 22
  • (45) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 22
Level 24: Tactics
  • (A) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 50
Level 26: Quickness
  • (A) Healing IO: Level 50+5
  • (27) Healing IO: Level 50+2
Level 28: Crippling Axe Kick
  • (A) Superior Vampire's Bite - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
  • (29) Superior Vampire's Bite - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  • (29) Superior Vampire's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
  • (31) Superior Vampire's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  • (31) Superior Vampire's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
  • (31) Superior Vampire's Bite - Recharge/Chance to Heal: Level 50
Level 30: Assault
  • (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
Level 32: Elude
  • (A) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb: Level 20
  • (33) Preventive Medicine - Heal: Level 27
  • (33) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance: Level 27
  • (33) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime: Level 27+5
  • (34) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime: Level 27+5
  • (34) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance: Level 27+5
Level 35: Dragon's Tail
  • (A) Eradication - Damage: Level 27+5
  • (36) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 27
  • (36) Eradication - Damage/Recharge: Level 27
  • (36) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 27
  • (37) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 27+5
  • (37) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage: Level 10
Level 38: Eagles Claw
  • (A) Pounding Slugfest - Accuracy/Damage: Level 27
  • (39) Pounding Slugfest - Damage/Endurance: Level 27
  • (39) Pounding Slugfest - Damage/Recharge: Level 27
  • (39) Pounding Slugfest - Disorient Bonus: Level 27
  • (40) Hamidon Origin: Endoplasm Exposure (+2 Acc/Mez)
  • (40) Hamidon Origin: Peroxisome Exposure (+2 Dam/Mez)
Level 41: Energy Gauntlet
  • (A) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50+5
Level 44: Force Barrier
  • (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance: Level 31
  • (45) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge: Level 31+5
  • (45) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 31
  • (46) Doctored Wounds - Heal: Level 31
  • (46) Doctored Wounds - Recharge: Level 31+5
Level 47: Vengeance
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed: Level 25
Level 49: Victory Rush
  • (A) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl
  • (A) Hamidon Origin: Nucleolus Exposure (Acc/Dam)
Level 1: Sprint
  • (A) Celerity - +Stealth: Level 15
Level 2: Rest
  • (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
Level 2: Swift
  • (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50+5
Level 2: Hurdle
  • (A) Jumping IO: Level 50+5
Level 2: Health
  • (A) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration: Level 10
  • (9) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance: Level 10
  • (17) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 20
Level 2: Stamina
  • (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 21
  • (13) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 27
  • (23) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50+5
Level 1: Disintegrating
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge
  • (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50+5
Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement
Level 50: Gravitic Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Robotic Drones Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Rebirth Radial Epiphany
Level 50: Support Radial Embodiment
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 4: Turbo Boost
------------
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
(click to show/hide)
------------
Set Bonuses:
(click to show/hide)
------------
Proc chances: (w/ Agility Radial Paragon Alpha)

Thunder Kick: Superior Might of the Tanker (5.0 PPM, stacks up to 3x)
  • 5 * ((3 / ( 1 + 122.03 / 100 )) + 0.83) / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 0 * (11 * 0 + 540) / 30,000))) = 18.18%
Storm Kick: Superior Gauntleted Fist (3.0 PPM)
  • 3.0 * ((6 / ( 1 + 122.03 / 100 )) + 0.83) / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 0 * (11 * 0 + 540) / 30,000))) = 17.77%
Focus Chi: Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control (1.0 PPM)
  • 1.0 * ((90 / ( 1 + 82.35 / 100 )) + 1.17) / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 0 * (11 * 0 + 540) / 30,000))) = 84.21%
Crippling Axe Kick: Superior Vampire's Bite (5 PPM)
  • 5 * ((11 / ( 1 + 95.49 / 100 )) + 1.6) / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 0 * (11 * 0 + 540) / 30,000))) = 60.22%
Dragon's Tail: Eradication (3.5 PPM)
  • 3.5 * ((14 / ( 1 + 99.56 / 100 )) + 1.5) / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 8 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000))) = 26.14% per $Target
Eagles Claw: Pounding Slugfest (2.5 PPM)
  • 2.5 * ((12 / ( 1 + 44.06 / 100 )) + 2.53) / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 0 * (11 * 0 + 540) / 30,000))) = 45.25%
Health: Panacea (3.0 PPM heal, 3.0 PPM endurance, checked independently of each other)
  • 3.0 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 00 * (11 * 0 + 540) / 30,000))) = 50% (every 10s)
Stamina: Performance Shifter (1.5 PPM)
  • 1.5 x 10 / (60 * (0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 00 * (11 * 0 + 540) / 30,000))) = 25% (every 10s)


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

Redlynne

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Re: [RI5] SR/MA Tanker = NO GET HITSU!!
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2023, 01:20:37 pm »
Okay, with the build details and Mids Reborn data chunk dealt with ... let's dig into the details and specifics of all the synergies and "stuff" going on in this build (and yes, a lot of this won't make as much sense if you aren't looking at Mids for the fiddly bits).

Yes, this is where the WALL OF TEXT CRITS YOU!!! warning becomes relevant again (as usual) for my build posts.
You have been warned (again).








Notes on choice of Levels for Enhancements to be slotted in:

So what's up with picking enhancements that all seem to be either Level 22, 27 or 31 ... except for procs, common IOs and of course, HOs?

In a word ... EXEMPLAR.
Or to put it into two words, a desire to make the build Exemplar Friendly.

The first time I tried to create a build plan after Issue 9: Inventions released, I did what most people probably did at the time ... I used all Level 50 sets and common IOs for my build (MAXIMUM POWAH!!!).


Imagine my surprise when practically my entire build plan fell apart(!) any time I had to Exemplar down to Levels 1-46 because all my set bonuses had a lower bound cutoff of Level 47 (because the enhancements were all Level 50).

That rather ... rude awakening ... had be dive back into Mids and try to find a "sweet spot" of going as low as possible on the Enhancement Levels without dropping below the throughput performance of SOs (spoiler alert: Level 26 is the parity point between IOs and SOs).

Later, the Flashback System was introduced and it had very clearly defined Level Range Bands built into it for replay of old content. For the purposes of wanting to slot Enhancements into a Mids build, the most relevant Flashback Level breakpoints then became Levels 19, 24 and 29 ... because SOs "began" at Level 25 (and could be slotted as early as Level 22). Furthermore, some Invention Sets had minimum Level ranges of 25-50 or even 30-50, so some flexibility in this area was called for.

The system which I eventually settled upon, and which you will see represented in pretty much all of my build posts, is that the Enhancements themselves (with only some exceptions) will typically fall into either being:
  • Level Minimum For The Set: This is usually done for any procs (or proc-like) IOs, so as to maximize their ease of slotting and flexibility if ever unslotted for use in other builds (where "mobility" of Enhancements can become an issue)
  • Level 22: Some powers are so "underwhelming" in their default buff throughput that "downgrading" an Invention Set's IOs from Level 27 down to Level 22 yields an acceptably small reduction in overall throughput for the power being enhanced. This is most often true of a power such as Leadership: Maneuvers where the "demotion" of a full 6-slot of enhancements will yield a reduction of ~0.15% Defense(All) in throughput differential (an acceptable reduction in the overall context of a build). The advantage of making this choice, despite the loss in enhancement power is that the global set bonuses offered by the slotted Invention Set are available over a wider range of Exemplar Levels ... in this case all the way down into the Level 19 Limit Flashbacks as well as the Level 20 Task Force and Strike Force options.
  • Level 27: This is going to be the Enhancement Level assigned to "most" Enhancements slotted into a build, because these Enhancements are still "operable" and generating their global set bonuses when Exemplared down to Level 24 for that range of Flashback content, in addition to the Level 25 Task Force and Strike Force options.
  • Level 31: This Enhancement Level choice is an outcome of the fact that some Invention Sets are limited to Levels 30-50, so the option to select a Level 27 version of that set is not available. The choice of Level 31 instead of Level 32 (as might otherwise be expected) is largely a function of the fact that the Moonfire Task Force exists ... and having global set bonuses "not get switched off" while running that Task Force is enough of a consideration to warrant the use Level 31 instead of Level 32 for Invention Sets limited to the 30-50 range (such as, most prominently, Numina's Convalescence). Yes, this is less of an issue for Villains (who can't participate in the Moonfire Task Force), but is a consideration for Heroes, Vigilantes and Rogues ... so on the whole I figure it makes for a Best Practices standard, even when dealing with intentionally Villain Only builds (just in case).
  • Level 50: Anything that doesn't offer a set bonus (and isn't a proc of some sort) automatically gets slotted as a Level 50 Enhancement. Without any set bonuses to worry about, there's no advantage to "slotting low" on these Enhancements.
  • (+2) HOs: Despite everything the Invention System brought in terms of slotting options, there are yet still some combinations of enhancement that produce the best results when using HOs. Accuracy/Damage, Accuracy/Mez(All), Damage/Mez(All), Damage/Range, along with other possibilities in the Endurance/Movement as well as some multi-Buff and multi-Debuff combinations ... HOs still offer the highest "enhancement density" value per slot in some notable contexts. Also, just like TOs, DOs and SOs, you can combine HO enhancements to raise their effective Level above 50. Until I can test exactly how "far" you can go with combining HOs, I'm presuming the limit is still going to be a maximum of +2 Levels (requiring a minimum of 3x HO per slot so combined, assuming no failures to combine).
So why those numbers?
Well, because ...

19+3 = 22
24+3 = 27
28+3 = 31

Since parity of enhancement "strength" lies at Level 26 for IOs, slotting set IOs for set bonuses in the range of Levels 22, 27 and 31 (aside from procs) then represents the "sweet spot" that can be found between Low and High for the broadest possible range of Exemplar Levels that yield consistently reliable performance from global set bonuses.








Notes on Defense Softcapping:

Attentive readers of this thread will no doubt have noticed that the "baseline" Defense vs Melee/Ranged/AoE are all well in excess of 45% in this build ... and there's a reason for that. It's because some Foes get a +To-hit and/or Accuracy bonus (most notably in Incarnate Trials) in addition to having a buffer margin against Defense Debuffing by more "ordinary" adversaries (in large numbers!).

The real "secret sauce" of this build as far as Defense goes is that Storm Kick (when it hits...) adds +10% Defense to All but Toxic and Psionic (and Untyped, of course) Damage Positions and Damage Types. That means that with a single hit from Storm Kick, this build (when complete and at Levels 24-50 for all set bonuses) can be sitting pretty at +64.X% Defense vs Melee/Ranged/AoE and still be softcapped against Incarnate Trial Foes with "room to spare" for Defense Debuffing.

That said, there are (of course) some "Kryptonite" counters to this protection scheme ... the most dangerous of which (in my experience) is the Devouring Earth Quartz summoned by Lieutenants along with multiple stacks of Vengeance caused by defeating Nemesis Lieutenants. Both enable large quantities of Foes to "shift the balance in their favor" against the Defensive Softcap, effectively "nullifying" the protection offered by Super Reflexes.

Another "Kryptonite" counter to Super Reflexes is the Mind Control powerset, with psionic attacks that have a a Damage Type (psionic) but not a Damage Position (because there is nothing "physical-ish" to defend against, it's "all in your head"). Mesmerize can't stack its Sleep MAG, due to how the power also does damage, but Dominate can be stacked against Super Reflexes, overcoming the protection of Practiced Brawler. Others include (of course) Ghost Widow's MAG 100 Hold power and other outliers ... such as (Raid) Hamidon's deliberately Untyped Damage which cannot be Defended against (Resist, sure, Regenerated out of, sure, Defense ... not so much).

At its core, a Defense based protection scheme (especially when soft capped) is extremely powerful against adversaries ranked as Elite Boss and below. Against Hero/AV and the Monster/Giant Monster class of opposition, Defense alone isn't going be enough to keep you alive, you will need ... MORE ... than just a pure Defense strategy. In Incarnate Trials, particularly the Underground Trial, there are threats such as Lethal Force Authorized used by Extinction War Walkers (3 of them) which can easily overwhelm this build's (nominal) Max HP and Energy Resistance in the absence of +Absorb (now provided by Elude and Force Barrier!) to be able to "soak" the incoming damage from this devastating attack. The Avatar of Hamidon's Cripple attack will inflict a -100% Recovery Debuff in addition to "damaging" Endurance by -10 per second for 15 seconds (which is usually enough to completely drain to detoggle a facetanker), but which this build can now counter using either Elude and/or Victory Rush in order to "power through" getting hit by Cripple.








Notes on backstopping Defense Protection schemes:

As anyone with experience playing Willpower will tell you, softcapped Defense is fine and all ... but without "something else" to back it up, you'll still wind up faceplanting when your opposition rolls double boxcars on you. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, you've got next to no reaction time to do anything about it ... so it comes as a shock to both you and your team when you Drop For Debt.

The typical "answer" to this problem is to reach for Resistances and/or Regeneration and/or Absorb.
Resistances make the incoming damage "hurt less" when taken, letting you "soak more" incoming damage.
Regeneration makes the incoming damage "hurt less" by making the damage taken "evaporate" faster.
Absorb makes the incoming damage "hurt less" by effectively giving you a "deeper pool" of health that needs to be burned through before you drop for Debt.

The difference is that Resistances are Typed (S/L/F/C/E/N/Tox/Psi) while Regeneration "responds against everything" (given time to do so) and Absorb also "works against everything" too.

My understanding is that most Players instinctively reach for Resistances FIRST as their primary means to shore up the weak points of Super Reflexes, with Fighting: Tough being the long standing "go to" option for doing this. However, I personally have never been a "fan" of the Fighting Pool, viewing the need to pick up Boxing or Kick as a prerequisite for Tough (with the option of Weave) as being more trouble than it's worth. RI5 has also introduced alternatives to Weave in Acrobatics (Leaping), Aerobatics (Flight) and even Blink+Blink Blitz (Teleport) as additional sources of useful +Defense aside from Hover, Combat Jumping and Stealth.

Paragon Studios eventually revamped Super Reflexes such that the three Passive Powers (Dodge, Agile, Lucky) offered scaling Resistances as HP went down, to partially mitigate against the fact that Super Reflexes, as a Powerset, was "too pure" to have any Resistances built into it at all from game launch. On a Tanker, this means a 0-20% scaling Resistance(All) for each of the three Passive Powers (for a combined 0-60%).

Tack on the scaling resistances proc from the Reactive Defenses set along with the up to 3x stack of +Resist(All) from the Might of the Tanker ATO proc (+5% normal, +6.7% superior) and you're looking at a LOT of potential resistance available without needing to resort to selection of an actual Resistance Power.

Still, a Resistance Power that can slot Resistance sets is highly desirable, since there are Resistance set procs that can add 2x +3% Defense(All) along with the Unbreakable Guard: +Max HP proc ... and now Dodge, Agile and Lucky can all slot these procs natively in RI5.

But the way I figure things, given my past as a MA/SR Scrapper on Virtue, is that Resistances are "nice to have" but Regeneration is NEEDED ... and Absorb covers the edge cases.

The scaling resistances offered by Dodge/Agile/Lucky combined with the Reactive Defenses proc and Might of the Tanker proc (stacking) can yield "plenty" of resistance when the chips are down and it is desperately needed ... but the rest of the time, what I (personally) would consider more valuable than Typed Resistance is ... Regeneration. I have found through combat experience that with sufficient Regeneration and strong Defenses, resorting to the Medicine Pool for Aid Self is no longer necessary (and Field Medic does not work out as well as I had hoped in terms of synergies).

With FAST recharge on Force Barrier (47.32s on a 30s duration) and Elude (176.9s on a 90s duration) when factoring in T4 Agility Radial Alpha slotting for heaping helpings of +Absorb when you really need it to survive "Way Too Big" hits ... and/or give yourself some extra margin against edge cases ... so long as you don't overcommit on long animations at inopportune moments, this build will give you everything you need to survive against MOST opposition (including Incarnates).

And yes ... since I don't have (or need) Hasten in my build, I can put T4 Rebirth Radial Destiny on autofire and have a "permanent" bonus to my Regeneration with close to 100% uptime (it's REALLY NICE!) I don't even miss removing the Medicine Pool from my build plans and strategies.








Notes on why Maneuvers is a better choice than Weave

Back in the days (now over a decade ago), there was something of a fierce debate over the merits of Weave vs Maneuvers when it came to the Super Reflexes powerset in the Scrapper forum of the original CoH boards. The way I eventually came to appreciate the differences basically came down to this:

Weave is the Selfish Choice.
Maneuvers is the Altruistic Choice.


To oversimplify things, 1x Weave = 2x Maneuvers for a soloist.
That's just a function of the basic buff level offered by the respective powers.
It's not exactly that, but it's close enough for our purposes of conversation.

That basically meant that if all you cared about was ... yourself ... then Weave was the superior choice for you, as a soloist.
But if you cared about group play ... Maneuvers was the superior choice, and you were only "losing out" relative to Weave when soloing.

The best way that I can illustrate this is with a Team-8 comparison.
Let's say that you've joined a Team-8 and your character has Weave and no one else does. What does that do in the team context?
  • 1x Weave
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
Okay ... so what happens if two of you have Weave on that Team-8?
Well ...
  • 1x Weave
  • 1x Weave
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
Well ... DUH ... tell us something we don't already know! (I hear you cry)
Alright ... compare and contrast the above, with what happens with Maneuvers instead if you're the only one on the Team-8 with Maneuvers.
  • 1x Maneuvers = x0.5 Weave
  • Nothing = x0.5 Weave
  • Nothing = x0.5 Weave
  • Nothing = x0.5 Weave
  • Nothing = x0.5 Weave
  • Nothing = x0.5 Weave
  • Nothing = x0.5 Weave
  • Nothing = x0.5 Weave
And now look at what happens when two characters on the Team-8 have Maneuvers ...
  • 1x Maneuvers = x1 Weave
  • 1x Maneuvers = x1 Weave
  • Nothing = x1 Weave
  • Nothing = x1 Weave
  • Nothing = x1 Weave
  • Nothing = x1 Weave
  • Nothing = x1 Weave
  • Nothing = x1 Weave
I don't think I can stress the difference in value any more clearly than this.

The Fighting Pool (and Weave specifically) as an alternative to Leadership (and Maneuvers) is a choice between selfishness and altruism.

If you take Weave from the Fighting Pool ... you're the ONLY ONE who benefits.
If you're a soloist who never joins a group ... that works just fine (for you).
When the only one you care about is yourself, the selfish choice is (clearly!) the superior option.

But as soon as you start adding teammates into the calculus ... that all changes.
When YOU yourself have Maneuvers ... all you need is ONE TEAMMATE who also has Maneuvers to give everyone on your team the equivalent of the Weave power (and if more than one teammate has Maneuvers, you're ALL doing better than picking Weave).

To extend the comparison to its logical conclusion, compare and contrast THIS:
  • 1x Weave
  • 1x Weave
  • 1x Weave
  • 1x Weave
  • 1x Weave
  • 1x Weave
  • 1x Weave
  • 1x Weave
With THIS:
  • 1x Maneuvers = x4 Weave
  • 1x Maneuvers = x4 Weave
  • 1x Maneuvers = x4 Weave
  • 1x Maneuvers = x4 Weave
  • 1x Maneuvers = x4 Weave
  • 1x Maneuvers = x4 Weave
  • 1x Maneuvers = x4 Weave
  • 1x Maneuvers = x4 Weave
Now, you tell me.
Which team would you rather be on among the above choices?

When it comes time to making Power Picks, it's important to think about more than just yourself and how your build affects YOU when you play. You also want to be thinking about what your character brings to a Team when you join a group, beyond just your DPS and Mez potential (and so on and so forth). Leadership is the only Pool that makes entire teams BETTER just by having you around ... and the Fighting Pool doesn't do that (or at least, not in the same way or even to the same degree, usually).

The Fighting Pool is a SELF multiplier set of Powers.
The Leadership Pool is a TEAM multiplier set of Powers.


There's a reason why I'm always trying to find room in every build I make in Mids for all three Leadership toggles in my build plans. That's because I would rather be counted among those who contribute to the success of my fellow Players, rather than merely looking out for #1 and leaving everyone else to fend for themselves.

Yes, Weave "looks better" on paper (or in Mids) when all you care about are your own numbers ... and for a very long time, Tough was the ONLY Pool Power available to Super Reflexes that offered access to a Resistance Power that could slot Resistance sets ... making this choice a very difficult one for many builders, but that is no longer the limiting factor choice anymore ... not on Rebirth.



This same mentality informed my choice of Hybrid Slot.

Assault is the SELF multiplier option.
Support is the TEAM/LEAGUE multiplier option.


Consequently, I never have to worry about "is this the right time to activate my T4 Support Radial Hybrid?" because the answer to that question is ALWAYS YES (except, perhaps, in the minutes before a big boss battle). Toggle on Support whenever it is recharged while clearing trash, since it multiplies the damage output of the entire Team/League (within the 80ft PBAoE). Stacked with Assault (Tanker), you're adding between 10.5-18.5% extra damage to everyone nearby to you, which can quickly add up to being a lot more added damage than you would ever be able to deliver yourself (even when averaging out the on/off of Support damage buffing relative to the "always on" Assault passive damage buffing).



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Redlynne

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Re: [RI5] SR/MA Tanker = NO GET HITSU!!
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2023, 02:50:51 pm »
Notes on Super Reflexes (and the slotting thereof)

OBVIOUSLY something has shifted (extremely radically!) with the release of RI5.

My previous RI4 era SR/MA build did not include Elude(!) and I was using the Sorcery Pool to reach for Rune of Protection (as a slot mule for Resistance set procs). Later, I attempted an alternative using Hover+Stealth in lieu of the Resistance set procs (+3% Defense each) ... which worked, but wasn't entirely satisfying for me as a work around solution.

RI5 "shifted" enough of the fundamentals underpinning things that some pretty massive reorganization needed to take place. Being able to slot Resistance set IOs into Dodge, Agile and Lucky directly completely removed the need to even worry about the Sorcery Pool ... opening up the possibility of taking Gadgetry instead in order to reach for Force Barrier (a second +Absorb power to alternate with Elude).



The problem was, I didn't have enough slots to go around after making changes to the new RI5 paradigm. Ranged Defense was falling short of 59% baseline (not by much, but it irked me all the same) and I was having trouble finding places to put the Heal procs (that need to be in active powers to actually proc). Throwing away the Medicine Pool let me reclaim 2 slots, but I "needed" those slots elsewhere for a "well rounded" overall build strategy. Health and Stamina both lost 2 slots each in the reshuffle, which put a big dent into my Regeneration (down about -80% from RI4!), Max HP (also down slightly from RI4). Even my global damage buff and recharge buffs fell slightly relative to the RI4 build plan ... but being able to slot up both Elude and Force Barrier for RAPID recharge and HUGE +Absorb made all the difference, as did being able to slot Resistance Set IOs into Dodge, Agile and Lucky.

Practiced Brawler with 6-slot Numina's Convalescence (for the huge +3.75% Ranged Defense!) is what unlocked the puzzle since it meant I could get a lot more +Absorb every 10s than previously in RI4, while simultaneously taking the pressure off needing to overslot (and boost) Focused Senses and Agile (and Maneuvers into the bargain!) in order to have a "standing around idle" Ranged Defense of over 59% at Level 50(+1), when it is needed.

Lucky CAN BE 4-slotted with yet another Luck of the Gambler set, but I chose not to in order to build additional margin against net endurance budget issues (when consistently using Dragon's Tail) and also to provide additional "blue buffer" against the Avatar of Hamidon's Cripple attack as well as other endurance draining attacks (looking at YOU, Malta Sappers). The only attack power that "suffers" for missing the extra +9% global accuracy is Energy Gauntlet, since all the Martial Arts attacks are over 100% accuracy against +3 Foes (and Energy Gauntlet is 88-89% accurate against +3 Foes). Given a choice between a little more regeneration (not enough to notice, really), a little more Max HP (also not enough to notice really) and a smidgen more global accuracy ... I figured that a little diversification into more Max END, Recovery and Fire/Cold Resistance would ultimately wind up being the smarter play.

Just to test that proposition, I tried out a Lucky: Luck of the Gambler setup on the Target Dummies in RWZ, going full out on the attack cycle to test the endurance budget.

EC . TK . SK . CAK . DT . (repeat)

I was noticing that my Endurance was slowly draining away ... slower than it had been under the RI4 build (which was less friendly to the endurance budget), but still net negative. I didn't test my way to detoggle, but I had the definite feeling of being "on the clock" until running out of endurance and detoggling while using Dragon's Tail in the attack rotation.

Then I used unslotters to pull enhancements out of Lucky and Vengeance so as to put the Luck of the Gambler proc into Vengeanceand a 4-slot of Gift of the Ancients into Lucky as seen in the build post above. Redoing the full out attack cycle test on the endurance budget, I was still net negative ... but the balance was so close to break even that I would need to be attacking for MINUTES without pause before it would become a problem. The shift over to Gift of the Ancients was actually making enough of a difference that I could easily envision going flat out on attack rotations (including Dragon's Tail) and not risk drawing down my Endurance too low before Elude would recharge and could "solve" the net recovery deficit quite easily. That ... shift ... in the "max attack chain" endurance budget gave me sufficient peace of mind to choose the Gift of the Ancients option as the better "longer term" solution for the build overall as a whole.



Elude is also somewhat interesting (now that it doesn't "crash" when its duration ends) because it "solves" multiple edge case problems while also having some utility. In addition to being a big +Absorb (6-slotted with Preventive Medicine) it's also a "Run speed" power for fast(er) travel (Swift+Hurdle+Ninja Run+Sprint equivalent is my "run around town" go to). Although Elude does add a little bit of jump height, it's not enough to really notice when traveling. The Recovery buff however makes Elude a really serious countermove against Endurance Drains.

With a fast recharge yielding a theoretical uptime around ~50% ... Elude stops being a "clutch" power that you only want to use when desperate and turns into a "use it when recharged" kind of power (except in the minutes before a big boss fight where you know you'll need to have it recharged). Having Elude as a "backup Absorb" when Force Barrier is recharging, however, CAN BE that "clutch" move you need. During last night's Underground Trial where I was Main Tanking the three Extinction War Walkers again, I needed to use Elude during a "gap" in uptime by Force Barrier to stay alive against Lethal Force Authorized, so having redundant "massive" +Absorb powers (on the order of Dull Pain scaling) there was absolutely Debt Saving.

Tankitty Tank Tank TANK!








Notes on Martial Arts

From the beginning, I wanted Might of the Tanker 6-slotted into Thunder Kick ... and Gauntleted Fist 6-slotted into Storm Kick.
Why?
Bread 'n' Butter.

From Level 2+ the bread 'n' butter of the attack chain side of things rests on a foundation of Thunder Kick and Storm Kick. Once you can get these two Powers slotted up with their ATOs, it's just GRAVY. Using Thunder Kick twice as often as Storm Kick (usually in a TK/SK/TK/pause rotation) yields plenty of opportunities to proc both the +Resistance (stacks up to 3x) and +Absorb, making you very sturdy despite your lack of Powers and Slots.

At low levels (Exemplar 1-22), this minimalist attack chain needs to be augmented with Inherent and Temp Powers ... Brawl, Throwing Knives, Nemesis Staff, Ghost Slaying Axe ... you know the drill. Nice thing is, being able to get a combined +27% Accuracy from 4-slot Luck of the Gamblers makes a difference not only to the slotting of Martial Arts Powers, but also your Inherent and Temp Powers that you use for attacks! It's so NICE to not have to worry about MISS!ing half the time with Powers you can't slot Enhancements into!

And just as an aside, I find the Ghost Slaying Axe to be more useful than the Sands of Mu in a lot of cases due to the automatic double damage to ghosts/spirits/undead/etc. that the Ghost Slaying Axe delivers. Makes quite a difference when taking on the Circle of Thorns and the Banished Pantheon, let me tell you!

It's also a rather LONG CLIMB from Level 2 (Storm Kick) all the way up to Level 28 (Crippling Axe Kick) ... and you need to get all the way up to Level 33 to finish slotting CAK, but by the time you do, it's all starting to come together.


Dropping the Medicine Pool and shifting slots around into new configurations, along with the NEED for more Energy Resistance (in order to survive getting hit by Lethal Force Authorized meant that Crippling Axe Kick wound up with a 6-slot Superior Vampire's Bite ... which just so happens to have a Heal proc in it. Net result ... no need to waste animation time on Aid Self anymore(!), just let Crippling Axe Kick procs top up any losses that aren't regenerating fast enough. Just keep attacking to heal yourself!

Focus Chi with 6-slot Gaussian's Fire Control is simply MONSTROUS. I've run the calculations and for 5 seconds, Focus Chi (with a proc) will put my build very close to the Tanker Damage Buff cap.

TK/SK/CAK = 101.37% Damage buffed
Focus Chi = +80% Damage buff (10 seconds)
Gaussian's proc = +80% Damage buff (5 seconds)
Global set bonuses = +8.5% Damage buff
Assault = 10.5% Damage buff

100 (base) + 101.37 + 80 + 80 + 8.5 + 10.5 = 380.37%

The Tanker cap on Damage is 400%.
Even without Support Hybrid buffing, I'm still getting within ~20% of the Damage buff cap for Tankers when using Focus Chi (for the first 5 seconds). I like to make that "opening salvo" following use of Focus Chi COUNT, because it's my turn to open the can marked "This Side Towards Enemy" (or words to that effect). And because Focus Chi recharges so fast (31.88s with a 10s duration) it too can be "used routinely" without needing to worry about "saving for later, just in case" when fighting. So long as you need to dish out more than 4 attacks in a row, wind 'er up and let 'er rip!

With close to 30% uptime, there's precious few reasons to NOT be using Focus Chi when recharged ...



Eagle's Claw is now the "control" power of the build, since it can reliably Mag 3 Stun for 7.8s, with a chance for bonus Mag 2 Stun of 8s on proc. Thunder Kick also has a 10% proc chance for a Mag 2 Stun to stack with Eagle's Claw ... while Crippling Axe Kick provides the Immobilize and -Fly/Run/Jump debuffing and Dragon's Tail delivers Knockdowns. Eagle's Claw also delivers an automatic +33% Damage buff for 3s after 2.5s (which is a little wonky) but can be easily worked around simply by doing:

EC > TK > SK > CAK > DT ... repeat

I've tested it on the Target Dummies in RWZ and so long as you cue attacks before they animate, you can get the +33% Damage buff relatively reliably on BOTH CAK AND DT before repeating the cycle. Makes for a tasty little multiplier when outnumbered. Timing is TIGHT on this, however, so you really need to practice doing this to get the muscle memory down before trying to use it consistently when soloing or in team/league play.


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