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Team Inspirations shouldn't be THIS limited/useless

Started by Redlynne, Jan 17, 2025, 01:22 AM

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Redlynne

During tonight's Keyes Island iTrial, I was trying to assist with "medical" duties for people who were getting Disintegrated.

Redlynne has her Valiance PBAoE aura (+118.4% Regeneration to Allies), but that is nowhere NEAR enough to help people survive the 40% then 80% Max Health hit at the end of Disintegration.

So I was trying to use Health Imbuement inspirations to help top up people so they could survive.
Imagine my surprise when I burn 2 of them while standing right next to a league mate (not a teammate) who is Disintegrating ... and their Health bar doesn't move ... at all.

The only logical conclusion that I can draw is that -> TEAM <- Inspirations are coded to (only) affect TEAMmates ... while anyone in your league, but NOT on your TEAM, is just ... um ... the game simply doesn't "like them" enough (on your behalf).  :-X

Am I the only one who thinks that this is ... sub-optimal?  ???



I'm thinking that the simplest solution would be to edit the parameter in the database that defines who who can be affected by Team Inspirations (within the 20ft PBAoE when used).

Instead of only affecting -> TEAM <- ... change it to affect Allies, so the Team Inspirations can affect league members as well as NPCs (who are not civilians, because nothing affects civilians).


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

Joshex

I agree.

tbh the AoE radius is a little issue too. I tank, and sometimes I get surrounded by mobs and cannot jump away towards teammates, they end up being just out of the AoE radius, I've found that most of the time I have used team insps no one but me has been effected, I think one time I effected 2 teammates.

The thing here is the team is typically spread out over a much greater area than 20ft, it's very rare that the team is not spread out by like 40ft to 60ft, and these are not premptive measures, when people need them applied, they are typically arrayed in-battle and it's impossible to say "gather for team insps" and expect them to be able to comply and move 5 ft closer to get in the 20ft AoE range.

I think it should be Ranged Chain(once) based on LoS(Line of sight). and yes effect league members, and any "Allies" too. we'll let the game figure out if a ray from player 1 can hit any player on the team/league or any friendly target. then we'll let the game figure out if illusivity causes that ray to be too far a distance to work.

these team inspirations could be anything from realizing theres some ingenious use for Regenerating Flesh no one ever thought about "hey, it can probably regenerate my flesh" and then realizing " hey because it regenerates I can break it into peices and throw some to a team mate 'here catch put it on that burn!', or it could be a team peptalk or speech shouted down the hallway that gives team members some beneficial thought or strategy which allows them to be buffed in some way. a rez insp of that nature could be "hey heroes on the floor, the rest of the team is going out for doughnuts after this, but only if you get up right now."

so, rather than AoE, it really could even be conveyed through the team communicator, but then everyone on team would get the buff regardless of being near or in line of sight.

so I really think a one time per ally Line of sight distance based ray-chain would be better.
Ye cannie be dividin by zero! However, ye can be dividing 0.0 by a non-zero! that'd be a float.
always Decimal(str(your float)) before you int( your float).

Redlynne

Quote from: Joshex on Jan 18, 2025, 04:49 PMso I really think a one time per ally Line of sight distance based ray-chain would be better.
In terms of "getting more reach" out of the Team Inspirations ... in theory that could work.
In practice, it's probably more trouble than it's worth, though. It would require a lot of engineering (and testing) to verify it.

Right now, the Team Inspirations are just a 20ft PBAoE.
Be a lot simpler to merely increase the radius ... perhaps to being a 30ft PBAoE ... and broadening the targets affected from being only Teammates to being Allies.

Point being that I would prefer to be a bit conservative, in a way that "twiddles" a couple of database values ... rather than reaching for a completely different "delivery mechanism" behavior, such as a chain.

At most, I wouldn't mind if the PBAoE were converted into something like a 90ยบ 45ft Cone, "pointing" in the direction of the camera view (precedent: Nature Affinity - Regrowth). That way, you have to "aim" the Team Inspiration(s) in the direction of the Allies you want to affect, rather than just being "close" to them somewhere nearby. Makes the Team Inspirations more "Player skill/awareness/control" dependent than an overly simplistic 20ft PBAoE.


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

Joshex

I think we need to test the "average-maximum" team distance. it'll mean having the server collect and record /loc data to figure out distances on X,Y,Z, given a range of different map types.

the reason I say that is 20ft in game or even 40ft might be different than you imagine. I assume each player bounds is roughly 2ft to 3ft, we divide that in half for AoE origin so 1 to 1.5ft, this is the bare-bones collision distance. some rays will even fail to detect objects flatly crammed up against this bounds. then you have enemies attempting to arrangethemselves around the target, perhaps 30 of them+some that are just standing there because they cannot be engaged because they are over the agro cap, each one of these adds 3x3, however they wont be arranged in neat square-flush blocks, instead corners of their bounds will meet flats of other's bounds pushing them out ever so slightly. so at "minimum-maximum" the next player Might be 3 or 4 enemy lengths+0.5theplayer width. so like 10.5 to 13.5 if everything is neat and compact. but that player and the enemies will literally have to be pressed together like a full elevator of people.

more often than not this is not the case, people and enemies do not cram in. they reach the maximum range for their attacks to cast and stop. melee range is like 7ft -3ft(1.5 player width and 1.5 enemy width) so they typically stop leaving a gap of 4ft, one or 2 might jump in there because they are cast-blocked by the rest of their horde denying them access to melee range to the target, but such hap-hazard jump-ins are far from neat and usually don't leave much or any space for new squeeze-ins leaving unoccupied melee range space that none can fit in.

but anyways 7ft roughly. 2 of these distances is 14, 3 is 21ft. I'd say that's average between 21 and 28ft of enemies + obstacles, that means at 30ft outside players would have to cram in leaving at most 0.5ft gap between them and the outermost enemy. but they often do not do that. as that would potentially incite far more than they intended to return fire. so they typically give it max melee or low to moderate ranged distance(but in some conditions high ranged distance for sniping and squishies). that's a gap of anywhere between 7ft, 10ft, 40ft or potentially upto 80ft.

That's if it's all neat and tidy where the tanker has full agro and has pinned the horde on a corner somewhere to draw all the ranged enemies into melee range.

More often, I've noticed players don't understand this concept that "it's quicker to dispatch enemies in a pile" and they engage before the tank and the mob spreads out to each player, the average player distance being 10ft to 15ft from each other.

so.. I'll let you investigate further and draw your own conclusions, these are just my observations.



a former thought for team insps is any ally engaged in battle(attacking or being attacked with-in the last X seconds) could recieve the benefit regardless distance or LoS. but yeah that'd take retooling as well.
Ye cannie be dividin by zero! However, ye can be dividing 0.0 by a non-zero! that'd be a float.
always Decimal(str(your float)) before you int( your float).