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Talk: Energy Control

Started by Joshex, Jan 18, 2025, 07:18 PM

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Joshex

So we all know energy control right?

Wait? you don't?!

oh.. right, it doesn't exist.

this is what went through my mind today when I had the bright Idea of making a new toon. I openned up a planner and chose controller then went looking through the different primaries and couldn't understand it. I thought I was just failing to see it. I thought "Energy 'everything' was one of the earlier sets in CoH, you'd think there'd definitely be an energy control."

turns out, no, there isn't an 'energy control'.


I know I suggest a lot of things. but this one seems like it should have been done on Live in like Issue 8 or so. how could we have not created this upto now?!

I got to thinking about the set, based on the hallmarks of energy, we're talking a situation of a Mez(Disorient) show where "would you like some Knockup and repel with your knockback good sir?" is the basis of the control set.


then I got into "what would an Energy Immobilize or Engergy Hold look like?" Immediately I was brought to the thought of the energy rings around the fists of my energy manipulation blaster.

So I imagined an energy immobilize places an energy ring around the enemy's legs. a hold could be anywhere from multiple rings one around the head, one around each hand and foot, to, energy balls around these, then I thought "well they could still move their arms if you just put energy around their hands" then came up with the mental image of "Energy Shackles" simply put a bar of energy connecting each shackle hand to hand, foot to foot and hands to feet, and an energy ball around their head. then I figured it'd restrict airflow so it'd probably cause choke and -recovery.

but as I thought about that I said to myself "where's the trademark knockback?" and so I paused until I thought, "well if the enemy tried to move and touched the energy ring.... BOOM. they'd go flying, and probably be significantly damaged too, add on a nice disorient for good measure if they trigger that Knock Up by trying to move or trying to attack when held."

then I was like "but there's no Anti Fly..." and then I thought "well, that's moving, even just hovering in place has some motion.. so.. that'd trigger High Energy Damage + Knockup+disorient. Ouch. I'd hate to be hit with that while flying.." cast> target is flying BOOM> 1,2,3,4,> target is still flying/trying to move/trying to attack, and attack duration has not expired = BOOM> repeat.

" '-fly' why would I do that? you can fly all you want! here let me help you fly higher! but that cieling looks like it'll hurt.."

*I now imagine a loop animation where someone is being controlled and smacked repeatedly into a cieling.* and the controller saying "stop smacking yourself into the cieling, stop smacking yourself into the cieling, stop smacking yourself into the cieling".

I mean they are "Trollers" what kind of behaviour did you expect? I'm surprised they aren't inventing magnet powered flight and trying to make schemes to bankrupt organizations they don't like and profit.

jokes asside, Energy sets are typically fairly Single-Target Centric. They typically have limited AoE or Cone in each set, and as a troller really needs to address the crowd, not just single targets, I figure after the first 2 single targets there should be alot of swirling energy fields, auras and bubbles. and tons of enemies getting knocked around and repelled and maybe even pulled back in to go all over again via a single attract, top it off with disorient and I think that's a good basis for an energy control set.

Thinking about a swirling energy aura, it could be fairly defensive +Def (all) +res(energy negative) add in Moderate Damage when enemies touch it, and repel and disorient and I think it's a good L8

but then I ran out of ideas for L12, L18, and L26... at that point I kinda thought it was too heavy in AoE, cone and chain already. and most sets do some variant of an AoE here.

I figured, an "energy controller" probably should be able to controll masses of energy and make them do his bidding, so he should get a pet, or 2. probably an energy golem/servant/spectre at L32 similar to dark servant but with a bright color tintable energy aura body-part-basis rather than dark clouds. it'll probably fizzle out on it's own over time, so a limited time summon perhaps. then I got to thinking about attacks for it and thought, "what happens when all that energy making this energy pet gets dispersed when it dies?" and I went looking through Energy sets and saw [Energy Blasting: Nova PBAoE Extreme Damage Energy/Smash foe: knockback] and was like "yep. that's what happens when energy golem or energy specter dies. it's pretty much a bomb with legs and arms.." and figured it should have 1 ranged and one melee attack probably in high damage due to it's limited summon time, so I added in [Power Burst(High Damage Energy/Smash foe Knockback)] for a ranged single target, and [Staggering Burst(Melee(AoE) Smash/Energy foe disorient)] for kinda an energy dispersal attack from the pet, as it's attacks, also it definitely needs a healthbar, that way if something does kill it BOOM.. either it's timer runs out and Nova, or something kills it and Nova, or the player(with enough haste to perma-summon it) replaces it's summon and: Nova on desummon.

and with that I'm semi-fresh out of compiled ideas for this set.

Maybe a ground-pounder, some field/energy-object that comes down on top of enemies and hits them with Energy smashing and Knockdown every time they stand up as it attempts to bash them into the ground repeatedly like an energy troller made a giant energy mallet and decided to play whack-a-mole.


and maybe a single target mega-hold at some rediculous magnitude.

maybe a Range Wide Cone energy smack, like a mass-target(upto 30) mega KB+disorient

maybe another energy aura with -acc -tohit to go with that disorient

another pet? Idk.

this is what I came up with:

Energy Control:
    L1 Energy Ring: Ranged, Moderate DoT Energy/Smashing (6.12x5), Foe: Immobilize. When foe tries to move/or is flying; Foe:  KnockUp (Mag 4.99), High Damage Energy (50.16)
   
    L1 Energy Shackles: Ranged, Moderate DoT Energy/Smashing (6.73x5) Foe: Hold, Choke, -recovery. When foe tries to move/or is flying or tries to attack; Foe: Knockup (Mag 6) High Damage Energy (50.16). "Energy Shackles Cover the Foe's Head, Hands and Feet rendering them unable to move or attack, the head covering restricts breathing, leading to a lack of ability to recover strength for a short time. If the enemy moves or tries to attack, the shackles tighten and release an energy pulse which will severely damage and send the foe flying up."
   
    L2 Energy Wave: Ranged Cone Chain, Minor DoT Energy(4x2), Foe: -fly, Knockup (Mag 10), Foe: GrantPower: ["Energy Conduit", Ranged Cone to player foex1, Minor DoT Energy, -fly, Knockup (mag 10) if time remaining on player cast: grant power ["EnergyConduit" from each target]] "you release a  fast-vibrating wave of energy that loops from target to target repeatedly for 27.94 seconds, violently knocking them into the air and pulling them back down every time it hits disabling their ability to fly. the energy burns as it runs through their nerves causing minor energy damage over time on each hit. This power can effect upto 7 targets at a time, it then arcs off of them to any other nearby target which has not recently been hit on the previous tick"
   
    L6 Energy Torus: Summon: Wide Field, Foe Attract, When the foe touches the center; Foe: High Damage Energy, Knockback Mag 16, Stun, Disorient. "you create a feild in the shape of a large energy bubble in the sha[e of a donut, the center has a gravity anomaly which pulls enemies in rapidly, when enemies touch this anomaly it violently reacts causing high damage and sending foes flying backwards leaving them stunned and disoriented for a short time."
   
    L8 Energy Cyclone Toggle: +Def(All) +Res (Energy Negative), PBAoE Aura Moderate Damage Energy(30.59), Foe: KnockUP (Mag 4), Repel (Mag 3), Disorient. "you create a whirling cyclone of energy around yourself that redirects attacks around you, any foe that touches it will be moderately damaged, then thrown up and away from you causing disorientation for a short time."

    L12 Energy Flash: TAoE Minor Damage Energy(5), Foe: Stun(160s), Blind(320s), Disorient(160s), -ToHit(20%), -Def(20% all), Knockback(Mag 1)

    L18 Weld: Ranged High DoT Energy(10x5), Foe Hold(Mag 36, 360s), -Def(30%), -fly(Mag 10) Knockdown

    L26

    L32 Summon Energy Specter: High Damage Energy, Attacks: Power Burst(High Damage Energy/Smash foe Knockback), Staggering Burst(Melee(AoE) Smash/Energy foe disorient), On Death: Nova (PBAoE Extreme Damage Energy/Smash foe Knockback).


Edit1/21/25:
thinking about this I've come up with another power:

Energy Flash/Flash: TAoE Minor Damage Energy(5), Foe: Stun, Blind, Disorient, -ToHit, -Def, Knockback
"You launch a very bright exploding ball of energy at your foes kocking them back and blinding them for a long period of time, it waves through them stunnign and disorienting them. because of the light burned into their retinas they are unable to see well causing a -20% decreased in ability to hit targets and defend themselves from being hit."

essentially energy has the ability to bind and knockback sure, but it can also blind, probably some of the strongest longest lasting blinds in game, like laser eye surgery gone wrong.


Weld: Ranged High DoT Energy(10x5), Foe Hold(Mag 30, 360s), -Def(30%), -fly(Mag 10) Knockdown
"You use your energy to literally, not figuratively weld your enemy to the ground. they find it very difficult to move so avoiding attacks becomes almost impossible, the welding process damages them over time for the initial application phase." -single target Super Hold
Ye cannie be dividin by zero! However, ye can be dividing 0.0 by a non-zero! that'd be a float.
always Decimal(str(your float)) before you int( your float).

Redlynne

Quote from: Joshex on Jan 18, 2025, 07:18 PMSo we all know energy control right?

Wait? you don't?!

oh.. right, it doesn't exist.

They're called PEACEBRINGERS. 8)
If you want the "dark" version, play a (MFing) WARSHADE. ;)



Probably not the response you were expecting, but ... ::)


Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.

Joshex

#2
Quote from: Redlynne on Jan 18, 2025, 10:53 PM
Quote from: Joshex on Jan 18, 2025, 07:18 PMSo we all know energy control right?

Wait? you don't?!

oh.. right, it doesn't exist.

They're called PEACEBRINGERS. 8)
If you want the "dark" version, play a (MFing) WARSHADE. ;)



Probably not the response you were expecting, but ... ::)


Peacebringers were the "everything else" that they couldn't fit in an AT and powersets that people requested, but tbh not much control. they are like ranged and melee mix tanks. so if they were shooting for Energy Control... and got essentially a super blaster.. then.. yeah I'm gonna say we still need an actual energy control powerset lol.

we can tone down the damage if that's the issue. but yeah an energy control set really should be done at some point.

Peacebringers are like an energy assault set. no control in it.
Ye cannie be dividin by zero! However, ye can be dividing 0.0 by a non-zero! that'd be a float.
always Decimal(str(your float)) before you int( your float).

Joshex

#3
interesting Idea for an Energy Control power:

Laser Volley: Summon Laser Pets, Life Duration; 300s, Recharge; 600s (attacks; [Laser Rays: Ranged Cone Moderate Damage Energy (5 damage, in 10 rays), Attack Duration; 2s, Recharge; Very Short (4s) Foe: Knockdown, Blind(Mag5, 30s), Disorient, 45% chance for Blind (Mag 16, 90s)]
"The world's most dangerous Lights Show. You release 2 to 4 highly compact energy balls which cannot be targeted nor destroyed as they are not alive but merely energy controlled by you. They follow you and fire multiple lasers from random angles into enemies you come accross, the lasers are aimed high, foes are knocked down on impact, and will be disoriented by the flashing lights when getting back to their feet, the laser lights make it difficult to see; blinding enemies to attackers. Some lasers may hit enemies in the eyes blinding them more severely. These pets only have enough energy to shoot lasers for 5 minutes, after which time they disperse into nothing. Using this power takes alot of focus to maintain, your brain needs to rest for a long time before you are ready to do it again.


again, this set is in the basic rough idea phase and subject to change and suggestion, none of the attacks listed in this thread are "final" nor must they be used in the set nor at any given level.

better suggestions? better names? tell us!
Ye cannie be dividin by zero! However, ye can be dividing 0.0 by a non-zero! that'd be a float.
always Decimal(str(your float)) before you int( your float).

Yikes

I reckon if we do energy control, it might be more in the vein of hardlight powers a la green lantern

EDekar

That would be cool.  Not because I care about lanterns (I don't know much about 'em beyond what I played of DCUO), but because that's the sort of effects I can justify with a Technology origin, and I always really like hypertech stuff in my vidja gaems.

Joshex

Quote from: Yikes on Mar 17, 2025, 04:53 PMI reckon if we do energy control, it might be more in the vein of hardlight powers a la green lantern

I strongly agree!

perhaps I should reenvision the set based off that.

If anyone has any input on powers of that sort they'd like to see, have them posted here. then at some point we can run a few polls to have the playerbase give their 2 cents on what should be included at each power tier, where the devs use this to inform their final decision.

I'm now thinking based on lanterns, the intellect of the lantern determines the complexity of the things they can create. So perhaps that should be the "special" attribute to all energy control powers a kinda "level modifier"
energy shackles,
lv 1: Targeted AoE (1 target) energy rings to bind the enemies' feet together to stop them from moving. (immobilize)
lv 10: Targetted AoE (3 targets) energy rings bind the enemies' feet stopping movement (immobilize)
lv 20: Targetted AoE (9 targets) energy rings bind the enemies' feet and hands, stopping movement and limiting attacks (hold)
lv 30: Targetted AoE (20 targets) energy rings wrap around the targets in bands from head to toe, restricting all movement and attacks (stronger hold).

not sure this is a good idea but it's an example.
Ye cannie be dividin by zero! However, ye can be dividing 0.0 by a non-zero! that'd be a float.
always Decimal(str(your float)) before you int( your float).

Joshex

#7
Quote from: EDekar on Mar 18, 2025, 01:41 PMThat would be cool.  Not because I care about lanterns (I don't know much about 'em beyond what I played of DCUO), but because that's the sort of effects I can justify with a Technology origin, and I always really like hypertech stuff in my vidja gaems.

I suggest you watch the movie. you know the actor for deadpool? he plays the main character. As far as I know that make Ryan Reynolds the only actor to bridge the Marvel & DC universe gap and personify a main character in each. this is an interesting concept because usually once you act for one studio or one corporate body, they tend to put restrictions on you acting in parts for their competition. So the fact Marvel/Disney could pick up a DC actor really is quite the anomaly. Someone in DC's legal team must have forgotten to dot the i's or cross the t's.

in other related situations, to properly come up with an energy control set, one must watch the green lantern movie with ryan reynolds. the comics may help as well. but the movie can give some general ideas. so that's what I'll do today, rewatch the movie and log some of the control type attacks used(naturally we'll need to use them as nothing more than a generalized inspiration for creating CoH specific energy control whilst thinking about polygons.

Also theres 3 Cartoon movies. I'll give them a watch first as I've already seen the live action one before.


Edit, theres also a green lantern animated series
Ye cannie be dividin by zero! However, ye can be dividing 0.0 by a non-zero! that'd be a float.
always Decimal(str(your float)) before you int( your float).

EDekar

Quote from: Joshex on Apr 01, 2025, 12:31 PMI suggest you watch the movie. you know the actor for deadpool? he plays the main character. As far as I know that make Ryan Reynolds the only actor to bridge the Marvel & DC universe gap and personify a main character in each. this is an interesting concept because usually once you act for one studio or one corporate body, they tend to put restrictions on you acting in parts for their competition. So the fact Marvel/Disney could pick up a DC actor really is quite the anomaly. Someone in DC's legal team must have forgotten to dot the i's or cross the t's.

in other related situations, to properly come up with an energy control set, one must watch the green lantern movie with ryan reynolds. the comics may help as well. but the movie can give some general ideas. so that's what I'll do today, rewatch the movie and log some of the control type attacks used(naturally we'll need to use them as nothing more than a generalized inspiration for creating CoH specific energy control whilst thinking about polygons.

Also theres 3 Cartoon movies. I'll give them a watch first as I've already seen the live action one before.

I don't watch television or movies, so no, no idea who that is and don't know anything about Deadpool either (other than as a character in Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3!).  Still, if that's helped to give you inspiration then go for it!  I'll always have cautious interest in new original sets, since I've more or less thoroughly explored everything done in the Live run of the game.

My interest in Technology related stuff is one reason I'm quietly hoping we see Praetorian Clockwork as an Epic Archetype someday.  Granted, I also want (Resistance) Heavy Hands attacks and guns available for player character use, because it's surprisingly difficult to play a Heavy Weapons Guy.

Anyway, bringing it back to Energy Control: I suppose you'd want to start with a 'basic' Control set framework and start working from there.  Presumably it has a pet, but what would that pet be?  It'd probably have a ST Immob, TAoE Immob, ST Hold, TAoE Hold, etc.  Variance exists, of course, when theme and synergy exist to drive a different method of group to group control.

Joshex

#9
When talking about Energy Control with a focus on lanterns, 2 defensive powers come into play

Energy Aura: a form-wrapping energy that supplies moderate resistance to nearly everything. we'll say 7% res to all but psionic.

Energy Bubble: Summon: Energy Shield, a form of energy in a ball it can be applied to self or self+team and will move with you, this bubble provides Powerful Defense and Moderate Res buffs while active. You can attack while using it, however as it is a summoned form made of energy, there is an upper limit of damage it can sustain before it dissolves and will need to be recast, this upper limit(Shield HP) changes based on the proficiency(level) of the user. Your energy shield can be targetted, healed and buffed or replensished by retoggling. Activation time: 0.75s, Recharge: 60 seconds. "Quick-Cast, Protect-my-ass" we'll say 15% def and 7% res to all but psionic, and maybe the bubble has 3000 HP at level 50 (keep in mind it itself has no defense unless buffed with +def, so all attacks hit it, and it has no res unless buffed with +res, so it recieves all attacks at full force, 2 to 3 strong hits could cause it to fail, 1 hit from AVs may cause it to fail). Some attacks do get through, but their intensity is reduced.


after that offensive abilities are mostly Immobilize, hold, KB/KU/KD, and Smashing/Energy.

Immobilize might be "Energy Tentacles": you manifest energy tentacles around the feet of your foes in a target radius preventing them from moving and dealing moderate Energy/Smashing DoT.

Hold might be "Energy Prism": Much like your Energy Bubble ability, this ability casts a barrier around an enemy preventing their movement and attacks from getting out but allowing attacks to get in, it also debuffs the enemy's defense while active, it has no expiration timer, however it can be broken by the target if it sustains enough damage. Energy Prism can be healed and buffed or repaired by recasting.

(Perhaps instead of making Energy Prism a separate power make Energy Bubble able to effect Self, Self+Team as a +def +res power, OR effect TAoE Foe as Hold -Def High DoT Energy), that is to say you can't cast it on yoursel+team and a Foe TAoE at the same time, you must detoggle 1 and recast for the other. it'd cast on self+team if no target or if target is friendly, and if target is foe cast on foe TAoE.

I could see a force move field which juggles enemies in the air like an energy-trampoline, Moderate Energy Damage, Disorient and KU on touch.


Smashing/Energy attacks would be KD, KB, KU secondary, and likely TAoE or LAoE(mouse pointer location AoE)

I could see one power akin to Hurl from Super Strength, which spawns a random object Surrounded by energy and smashes it down onto a target and surrounding mobs. Causing Very High Damage Smashing/Energy, Stun+Disorient, and KD. "Here, have a tank, let me grind that down in for you", unlike hurl, this attack could be kinda a multi-hit, where the object is not just smashed down but also picked up and smashed down several times over, dealing like triple Hurl's total damage+ energy.

As for KB I could see a barrage of energy objects cast in a Wide Long Cone, maybe Energy Missiles, Extreme damage Energy/Fire, KB, disorient.

We Should throw in a pet of some sort, like an energy giant or one of my other suggestions.

could have some sort of energy vice, like a car crusher to hold enemies in place for X time and damage.
Ye cannie be dividin by zero! However, ye can be dividing 0.0 by a non-zero! that'd be a float.
always Decimal(str(your float)) before you int( your float).