Add Rogue and Vigilante Alignment Merits and ways to spend them on the same things as Hero/Villain Merits

I like being a Rogue. I don’t wanna be a full Villain or a full Hero. The game shouldn’t disadvantage people in the endgame for not picking a side when the alignment powers you get for being Hero/Villain are already massively better than the Rogue/Vig powers.

Incentivizing everyone to choose between Hero and Villain to get enhancements also massively disadvantages Redsiders when it comes to doing group content on low-pop servers like ours, because if you have to choose one or the other, you better choose Hero or get ready to have no one to play with. Obviously both sides can collaborate on certain things, but for the rest of the game, it can be hard to even get 8 people on a redside team, especially if they need to be 8 or more at max level (LRSF, Hami raids). If people are squeezed unless they choose one or the other, that necessarily means there’s going to be fewer Vigilantes and Rogues who can hop over.

I know the game likes to treat them as fence-sitting impure alignments, but they can be core ideologies too, so it doesn’t make sense to treat them like intermediate stepping stones when some want to stay there forever. It just makes things worse for everyone.

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This is one of my own main gripes when pricing/rewards are discussed, people throwing around the alignment merits as a viable alternatives to reward merits. Reward merits are for everyone while Alignment merits primarily benefit those who have the time and desire to grind 5+5+1 missions every two days, and excludes furthermore the Vigilante/Rogue players. Reward merit adjustments could amend this obvious disadvantage while still maintaining that you get the easy and fast Alignment reward by sticking to one side, and the side-switchers are awarded more content that produce equivalent rewards. That would probably be accommodated by the cottage rule.

As I’ve discussed before, I would like to see an overhaul of the deterministic pathway to IO’s for the lower boundary cases. A good starting point would actually be to make an assessment of how many Alignment merits an IO costs and translate that to Reward merits. E.g., if a specific IO recipe costs 2 alignment merits, this is the equivalent of 22 missions, of which none will be a defeat all based on my experience with tips. I doubt Reward merits from a total of 22 missions in story arcs would be equivalent to the reward/time invested for Alignment merits. I don’t necessarily ask for lower reward merit prices, but rather have increased Reward merits for story arcs (and along with it, Strike and Task forces) to appropriately mirror this.

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The alignment merit to merit cost is actually really easy to determine.

Nothing in the alignment merit vendor is sold for less than 100 merits at a normal vendor. Anything that a merit vendor sells for 100-199 cost 1 alignment merit. Anything 200+ costs 2

It gets harder with VR because they don’t have an award merit value

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That would make it easy to align the attainment of Reward merits to about 150 Reward merits for 11 missions (1 Aligment merit average) to even things out. Or to take a lower boundary, 13 merits/door mission in a story arc for 143 Reward merits for 11 missions.

Should be a fairly easy fix to more appropriately reward story missions.

Edit: Should probably be a bonus/door mission in strike/task forces as the original design was to promote that content.

Fully support the idea of vig/rogues getting equal rewards for alignment/morality missions. Having characters able to shift sides is a benefit to the player base.

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I kind of like having switching sides be a big deal. Without some sort of ‘penalty’ most players would just go rogue so they can continuously do both Hero and Villain content. That would be an even easier ‘solution’ to switching sides than the Null the Gull trick used by HC.

Alignment Powers are also a thing and the Hero/Villain powers are all vastly superior to the Rogue/Vig ones. There’s still an incentive to go Hero and Villain, just a smaller one.

Some wouldn’t even consider the option of playing both sides to be a reward with any value, so it shouldn’t be treated as a big reward when it’s only a big reward for people who want it… just like everything in this game. Rogues and Vigilantes aren’t reaping a unique reward by being able to play anything, they’re doing the entire playerbase a big service by being able to populate any content at all. EVERYONE reaps the reward of having more Vigilantes and Rogues, even people who aren’t Vigilantes and Rogues, and that is extremely important on a small server like ours. It doesn’t force anyone to make side-switchers, it just ensures that people who want to can do so safely. If there’s a sizeable middle of people who DO want to switch sides, it actually makes it SAFER to make Villains and Heroes for concept, knowing that the big cloud of Rogues and Vigilantes will show up to whatever you might make.

If the only thing keeping you from making a side-switcher is the merits, well, that’s exactly the problem I’m trying to fix!

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I agree with YaGirlJuniper. Encouraging more players to go Rogue/Vigilante helps keep our small community more vibrant. People leave Rebirth due to low population/harder to get groups or help. If we had a larger R/V community, it would be much easier to fill out groups/trials/SF especially during times when there are only 14-26 players online. Say there are 24 players online, but only 6 on the redside. Can’t even make a complete group with that which fosters the “Redside is dead, no one plays it so I’ll just roll more heroes” self-perpetuating prophecy. It’s a downward cycle that just feeds upon itself. Removing the merit penalty from R/Vs would help to encourage more players to embrace playing both sides. I’ve taken 5 of my villians rogue just so I could group with more people and, yes, it does sting not to be able to have the access to the same rewards as other players just because I want to be able to join groups more easily. I’d love to have all of my toons be R/V but I am not expressly because of the prohibitive reward system.

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I agree it would certainly encourage everyone to go vigilante/rogue. On the surface that sounds OK, but it would pretty much destroy the whole choose a side and live with the consequences vibe.

If the goal is to get more players to make and play characters on the Villain side, a more direct approach would be less disruptive. Simply offer incentives to the Villain side toons. Not sure what would be technically feasible, but things like Villain side exclusive double XP weekends, or increased drop rates for villain side content would probably get a lot of people more interested in the villain side. Once a reasonable balance is achieved, then scale back the incentives so it doesn’t become lopsided the other way.

I will likely never go rogue or vigilante. But even so, I can really empathize with you!! If we made the rewards system the same for all possible alignment, my gosh. That would rock!! I hope it is possible!

It would still take at least 10 tips & 1 morality missions, plus getting to level 20 before you could switch sides so I don’t think comparing to homecoming (change any time, at will, back and forth, from level 1) is fair. Or more if you want to do story content from contacts or tfs from the other side.

Most people will still just roll up heroes and stay with it.

I don’t see why people choosing to do content on both sides is an issue to be honest? I doesn’t seem to be anything that really effects other people’s playtime negatively, and creates a more open world feel to me.

Double XP on red only would be harder than expected to initiate I think, as iirc 2xp can be done by altering a single line on the serve config, but would require serious effort to restrict it to only one side. I like the idea though.

Thinking about code difficulty, I’m assuming it would be easier to change to rogues/vigilantes reward merits from 50 to 100 (using the 1 hero merit to 100 reward merit conversion) rather than create two new alignment merit types and places to spend them.

Picking an alignment will still have some consequences.
Heroes/Villains would still have access to hero/villain merits which I think are slightly better spent at trident/crucible as hero/villian merits than as reward merits which rogues/vigilantes will spend.
Subjectively I think the alignment powers are better for heroes/villains over rog/vig.

A comprise might be upping the rog/vig reward to 75, so still less than what a hero/villain merit is worth (100) but less penalty that half. They still have to do 10 tips plus a morality to earn them.

Have to take into account too, that there is a the lack of recipes on the market, and tip missions are often suggested as the best way to get the recipes you want for characters. Tip missions are (imo) some of the best written content with fun twists that unfortunately get really repetitive fast as there isn’t enough of them. I’d like to earn equal rewards by doing a different set of missions.