Is there a balance reason for Power Pools being locked on Kheldians?

Sure, we know that in live the case was that Kheldians had no access to Power Pools nor Epic Power Pools, but why was it so when VEATs could use both? In fact, many VEAT builds rely on stacking the benefits from the buffs/debuffs in said pools with those of their own AT powersets, which is what makes them competitive. Meanwhile, HEATs are a bit lacking in-game.

The rumors I had heard back when the game was live was that they were locked away on Kheldians due to the inherent travel powers the HEATs had access too. The joke is that, said inherent powers do not apply to Human-form, so I can’t fly or Teleport while using those.

1 Like

Human forms get free travel powers as well, in addition to the nova flight and the dwarf to. Flight for PB, and TP for WS, they actually get them at lvl 1 so you can even fly around in the tutorials

Originally they couldn’t take either flight or TP pools to stop players from accidentally picking the same power twice.

That actually changed though, it might have been one of the i24 changes to Khelds. Any of the normal pool powers including the two pools that had been locked are available to

As for epic and patron pools, I don’t know, I just assumed it was based off of their versatility. Something could be added, but it would need to be fully redesigned pools with them in mind.

Everyone other ATplays a set role, and maybe dips into one or two others, khelds play several different roles depending on builds and situations.

Human forms get free travel powers as well, in addition to the nova flight and the dwarf to. Flight for PB, and TP for WS, they actually get them at lvl 1 so you can even fly around in the tutorials

I hadn’t played them here yet, I wanted to get a normal AT to 50 first for old times’ sake.

In any case, Widows are more limited in their possibilities, but then, so are Peacebringers. Soldiers do have more potential versatility than Warshades on paper, but in practice, the later are the only ones that can try to excel at being a jack-of-all-trades type in-game using a single build. If anything, opening up said pools might help Kheldians to have or find some way to properly specialize. As things stand, they are not that good overall, if we take into account the effort, investment and potential compared to the posibilities of other ATs. At this point, the upcoming Guardian will most likely be a better user of Luminous powers than a Peacebringer :frowning_face:

I recommend trying them out, the late changes make them way more versatile to play in my experience. I think way too many people overlook PBs, likely out of fear of KB, which is fairly easy to control in nova, and dwarf doesn’t have KB, but KD.

I’m pretty sure that inherent travel powers were always a feature of them though.

None of this is too say they shouldn’t get epic pools. But what would they get as epic powers? They can’t use pools in forms. They already have access to what most Epps give the other classes.

Melee get some control powers and some ranged and ranged AOEs. PBs already have a ton of AOE, and more ranges attacks than you can get in an epp. Giving them more control might be beneficial but if the whole epp is more control then they risk becoming controllers with near scraper levels of survival and ranged attacks and AOEs that put scrappers to shame

Controllers get armors and addition damage ranged attacks and AOEs, again, these are already part of the primary and secondary pools available to PBs.

There might be an obvious solution that I’m missing, but for the most part EPPs give access to powers an AT doesn’t get normally. Because they have such a wide selection of powers that becomes a fairly hard niche to fill without giving them more of what they already have

I remember that human forms didn’t have inherent travel powers at least until around 2011 or 2012. If you happen to know a searchable archive version of the old forums (I sadly don’t have space to download and decompress the 700GB that archive.org has), I could search for it and look it up. In any case, my main complaint is moot (since they do have inherent travel powers now) :woozy_face:. Thus the rest is a question of balancing. I’m not sure Rebirth devs are willing to touch that yet. CoXG’s solution isn’t bad, but they might have ended up a tad too overpowered.

I actually have a link somewhere to an old forum archive I think, let me look. I do want to make clear that I’m not actually opposed to Epps for heats, I just have no idea where to start that wouldn’t either be redundant or overwhelm other ats.

Just as a rough example, the body mastery for scrappers has 3 powers that PBs have access too either exact copies or are only slightly altered.

Edit, here a link to the archive. I have no idea if you’ll find what you’re looking for, but it’s a great resource

https://web.archive.org/web/20120904100458/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/forumdisplay.php?f=547

2nd edit: reading some stuff in there, opening up flight and TP power pools for HEATS was an i24 change, so it never actually went live, which explains why almost no one knows about it.

Yeah, I had the link, you just can’t use the search function, so you manually have to go through hundreds of pages while reading Topic Titles, without hopefully skipping what you were looking for :frowning_face: Which is why I was looking for some easier method.

In regards to the EPP, having “duplicate” powers isn’t directly the issue, since VEATs have them available just fine. Mere balance, seems like the most likely culprit then. Besides, what is the harm in allowing Warshades to Fly? At this point, I think the whole reason behind disabling them was just to prevent the human form from being too powerful/attractive, to the point of discouraging switching between forms.

The restrictions on the travel power pools were initially there because they were afraid players might pick the same powers twice. It was sorcery apparently that promoted the change, because initially pbs and ws were going to be locked out of it as well. After deciding to allow sorcery apparently they rethought their original stance on the powerpools.

Here a quote about it

“Actually, after a brief chat with Positron, it was revealed that the limitations were put into place so players couldn’t accidentally take a power twice. That’s still somewhat of a concern, but I am less worried about it now. Our players are pretty savvy and I think the limitation is more harming than players being able to “gimp” their characters by having Mystic Flight and Energy Flight.

So, barring any technical issues or weird unforseeables, I will be removing this limitation.”

-Synapse

Wow, thanks! Nice find.